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On 2024-09-15 16:23, Alan Browne wrote:
The EU meddles in things it should leave well enough alone.
The world needs standards so that items can be interoperable.
It's not like USB-C is guaranteed to be adequate in 5 years from now.
The British have had regulations about the sort of plugs that should be supplied in houses for many decades, yet nobody seems to think that they
are now obsolete just through being decades old.
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill.
So why are you propagating baseless anti-EU propaganda of the sort hyped
by Russian disinformation trolls?
On 2024-09-15 16:19, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-14 13:00, Java Jive wrote:
Alan Browne's false claim implied that Apple were already complying
at the time that the legislation made compliance compulsory, but in
fact they were not, which is exactly WHY the legislation made
compliance compulsory!
That is *not* what I said. Apple had no intention of putting USB-C on
the iPhone 15 - but were forced by EU regs. Result: more e-waste.
What you actually said was this:
On 2024-09-14 16:26, Alan Browne wrote:
The European USB-C fiasco just creates more e-waste.
Nonsense, it is designed to do exactly the opposite by making the
charging arrangements of all portable devices sold in the EU the same.
On 2024-09-15 16:26, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-15 10:40, Chris wrote:
Agree. Lightning should have died 3-4 years ago.
This is a product lifecycle decision that Apple make. EU should not
be involved in business decisions.
They gave Apple over a decade to make that decision, but Apple failed to
do so, so the EU had to make it for them.
On 2024-09-15 16:17, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-14 12:30, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-14 16:26, Alan Browne wrote:
The European USB-C fiasco just creates more e-waste.
Apple, in its own good time, would have brought USB-C to iPhone,
etc. Indeed, the newest iPhone would likely have been the launch
USB-C iPhone. Instead the EU forced Apple to go a year early.
All this "decision" does is create early e-waste of lightning
connectors and some wall-warts.
Government over regulating. EU!
BOLLOCKS! The above is just yet another predictable example of Apple
propaganda & EU-bashing. The simple truth is that nearly all the
other manufacturers had already adopted the USB-C standard while it
was still voluntary, but Apple had more or less refused point blank
[my caps to highlight the overwhelming majority]:
I note that you snipped the quote of the numbers of overwhelming
majority, how unsurprising given your posting record.
Apple is a business and make business decisions. Apple is one of the
original companies that _defined_ USB-C. But, they also jumped ahead
of everyone with the Lightning connector quite a while before that -
and therefore there was (is) a lot of Lightning based cables and
accessories out there.
And, even worse, from memory there are at least two EU technical boards giving advice to EU legislators over such matters, both of which Apple contribute to, so you have to ask yourself why they didn't bring their products into compliance sooner?
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
I wonder if Covid and the semi conductor shortage had anything to do with
Lightning hanging on longer than it should? All manufacturers in all
electronics sectors had supply problems, mainly with the dull low value
devices - such as usb and power supervisory chips. As Apple had a monopoly >> with Lightning in phones perhaps they had fewer problems getting hold of
these parts. Just speculating.
I guess that's possible. Not sure why lightning parts would be more sourceable than the more ubiquitous USB, though?
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2024-09-15 10:40, Chris wrote:
Agree. Lightning should have died 3-4 years ago.
This is a product lifecycle decision that Apple make. EU should not be
involved in business decisions.
They are both equally entitled to make decisions within their sphere of influence.
Apple chooses to sell into the EU market and so needs to comply to the
rules.
If Apple are wrong about it, the market will punish them.
Ridiculous statement. lol.
The USB-C force did not reduce e-waste - it prematurely increases the
amount of Lightning compatible devices going to waste.
It should happened earlier to avoid selling more obsolete lightning
devices.
On 2024-09-15 12:20, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-14 16:26, Alan Browne wrote:
;
The European USB-C fiasco just creates more e-waste.
Not the point, of course. Apple's path was clear - forcing the issue
had no effect on e-waste.
On 2024-09-15 12:59, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-15 16:17, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-14 12:30, Java Jive wrote:
BOLLOCKS! The above is just yet another predictable example of
Apple propaganda & EU-bashing. The simple truth is that nearly all
the other manufacturers had already adopted the USB-C standard while
it was still voluntary, but Apple had more or less refused point
blank [my caps to highlight the overwhelming majority]:
I note that you snipped the quote of the numbers of overwhelming
majority, how unsurprising given your posting record.
I'm not wasting time on your minutiae. This stuff has been covered ad nauseum in the past.
You've just adapted a trolling attitude of which I'm getting quite bored.
Apple is a business and make business decisions. Apple is one of the
original companies that _defined_ USB-C. But, they also jumped ahead
of everyone with the Lightning connector quite a while before that -
and therefore there was (is) a lot of Lightning based cables and
accessories out there.
And, even worse, from memory there are at least two EU technical
boards giving advice to EU legislators over such matters, both of
which Apple contribute to, so you have to ask yourself why they didn't
bring their products into compliance sooner?
Business decision. Period. As stated.
On 2024-09-15 12:28, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-15 16:23, Alan Browne wrote:
The EU meddles in things it should leave well enough alone.
The world needs standards so that items can be interoperable.
For consumer appliances this should be a marketing choice, not a mandate.
It's not like USB-C is guaranteed to be adequate in 5 years from now.
The British have had regulations about the sort of plugs that should
be supplied in houses for many decades, yet nobody seems to think that
they are now obsolete just through being decades old.
That is an electrical standard - as such is in the rest of the world.
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill.
So why are you propagating baseless anti-EU propaganda of the sort
hyped by Russian disinformation trolls?
I wasn't. Do keep up.
On 2024-09-15 12:35, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-15 16:26, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-15 10:40, Chris wrote:
Agree. Lightning should have died 3-4 years ago.
This is a product lifecycle decision that Apple make. EU should not
be involved in business decisions.
They gave Apple over a decade to make that decision, but Apple failed
to do so, so the EU had to make it for them.
HS. Apple would have gotten the iPhone to USB-C on iPhone 16. This was their plan. Do not forget USB-C was defined by (amongst others) Apple.
On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 17:36:15 -0000 (UTC), Tweed wrote:
Another thought connected with the semi conductor shortage - they may have >> felt that they couldn't produce enough usb-c chargers. Lightning iPhone
purchasers would likely be using an existing charger, especially Apple had >> stopped automatically supplying them with a new phone. Switching to usb-c
is very likely to cause an uptick in usb-c charger purchases at the time of >> buying your first usb-c iPhone. It would not look good if Apple said their >> chargers were in supply constraint. Not being able to buy semiconductors
freely was a real issue for two years post Covid, as shown by the car
manufacturers.
The real reason was stated in the business news at the time where Apple's profits for wireless chargers & high-power wired chargers went up something like five thousand percent year over year when Apple simply stopped
supplying the chargers and instead - sold them at the point of sale.
Another thought connected with the semi conductor shortage - they may have felt that they couldn't produce enough usb-c chargers. Lightning iPhone purchasers would likely be using an existing charger, especially Apple had stopped automatically supplying them with a new phone. Switching to usb-c
is very likely to cause an uptick in usb-c charger purchases at the time of buying your first usb-c iPhone. It would not look good if Apple said their chargers were in supply constraint. Not being able to buy semiconductors freely was a real issue for two years post Covid, as shown by the car manufacturers.
On 2024-09-16 17:12, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-15 12:59, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-15 16:17, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-14 12:30, Java Jive wrote:
BOLLOCKS! The above is just yet another predictable example of
Apple propaganda & EU-bashing. The simple truth is that nearly all >>>>> the other manufacturers had already adopted the USB-C standard
while it was still voluntary, but Apple had more or less refused
point blank [my caps to highlight the overwhelming majority]:
I note that you snipped the quote of the numbers of overwhelming
majority, how unsurprising given your posting record.
I'm not wasting time on your minutiae. This stuff has been covered ad
nauseum in the past.
You've just adapted a trolling attitude of which I'm getting quite bored.
TRANSLATION: I realise that I've lost this argument, but am not man
enough to admit it.
Apple is a business and make business decisions. Apple is one of
the original companies that _defined_ USB-C. But, they also jumped
ahead of everyone with the Lightning connector quite a while before
that - and therefore there was (is) a lot of Lightning based cables
and accessories out there.
And, even worse, from memory there are at least two EU technical
boards giving advice to EU legislators over such matters, both of
which Apple contribute to, so you have to ask yourself why they
didn't bring their products into compliance sooner?
Business decision. Period. As stated.
TRANSLATION: I realise that I've lost this argument, but am not man
enough to admit it, so simply restate my flawed opinion as though it has
the same ...
does not.
On 2024-09-16 17:12, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-15 12:59, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-15 16:17, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-14 12:30, Java Jive wrote:
BOLLOCKS! The above is just yet another predictable example of
Apple propaganda & EU-bashing. The simple truth is that nearly all >>>>> the other manufacturers had already adopted the USB-C standard
while it was still voluntary, but Apple had more or less refused
point blank [my caps to highlight the overwhelming majority]:
I note that you snipped the quote of the numbers of overwhelming
majority, how unsurprising given your posting record.
I'm not wasting time on your minutiae. This stuff has been covered ad
nauseum in the past.
You've just adapted a trolling attitude of which I'm getting quite bored.
TRANSLATION: I realise that I've lost this argument, but am not man
enough to admit it.
Apple is a business and make business decisions. Apple is one of
the original companies that _defined_ USB-C. But, they also jumped
ahead of everyone with the Lightning connector quite a while before
that - and therefore there was (is) a lot of Lightning based cables
and accessories out there.
And, even worse, from memory there are at least two EU technical
boards giving advice to EU legislators over such matters, both of
which Apple contribute to, so you have to ask yourself why they
didn't bring their products into compliance sooner?
Business decision. Period. As stated.
TRANSLATION: I realise that I've lost this argument,
On 2024-09-16 17:07, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-15 12:20, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-14 16:26, Alan Browne wrote:
;
The European USB-C fiasco just creates more e-waste.
Not the point, of course. Apple's path was clear - forcing the issue
had no effect on e-waste.
Self-contradiction.
On 2024-09-16 17:10, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-15 12:35, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-15 16:26, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-15 10:40, Chris wrote:
Agree. Lightning should have died 3-4 years ago.
This is a product lifecycle decision that Apple make. EU should not
be involved in business decisions.
They gave Apple over a decade to make that decision, but Apple failed
to do so, so the EU had to make it for them.
HS. Apple would have gotten the iPhone to USB-C on iPhone 16. This
was their plan. Do not forget USB-C was defined by (amongst others)
Apple.
HS here obviously applies to your claim, as I've just spent some time on
some Apple/Mac/i* follower sites looking at rumours and reports of
official statements about their intentions over the last two years or
so, and not one of them even mentioned this, let alone gives a credible source, indeed it's not mentioned even in some reports of official
statements that might have been expected to mention it, such as this one:
On 2024-09-16 17:09, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-15 12:28, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-15 16:23, Alan Browne wrote:
The EU meddles in things it should leave well enough alone.
The world needs standards so that items can be interoperable.
For consumer appliances this should be a marketing choice, not a mandate.
Opinion stated as if it were fact, and which is contradicted by the
known facts: there is nothing sacrosanct about consumer appliances, on
the contrary, the vast majority of, probably all, consumer appliances available in any western nation need to comply with that nation's
relevant standards.
It's not like USB-C is guaranteed to be adequate in 5 years from now.
The British have had regulations about the sort of plugs that should
be supplied in houses for many decades, yet nobody seems to think
that they are now obsolete just through being decades old.
That is an electrical standard - as such is in the rest of the world.
The USB-C is an electronic standard - as such as is to be found in the
rest of the world.
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill.
So why are you propagating baseless anti-EU propaganda of the sort
hyped by Russian disinformation trolls?
I wasn't. Do keep up.
You are someone who lives far away from the EU and is therefore largely unaffected by it but who nevertheless is propagating anti-EU propaganda
that has no basis in fact, just like a Russian troll.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2024-09-15 12:35, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-15 16:26, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-15 10:40, Chris wrote:
Agree. Lightning should have died 3-4 years ago.
This is a product lifecycle decision that Apple make. EU should not
be involved in business decisions.
They gave Apple over a decade to make that decision, but Apple failed to >>> do so, so the EU had to make it for them.
HS. Apple would have gotten the iPhone to USB-C on iPhone 16.
Cite? No-one knows this outside of Apple.
On 2024-09-16 16:50, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-16 17:07, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-15 12:20, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-14 16:26, Alan Browne wrote:
;
The European USB-C fiasco just creates more e-waste.
Not the point, of course. Apple's path was clear - forcing the issue
had no effect on e-waste.
Self-contradiction.
Not at all. You're neglecting that there are tons of perfectly well functioning Lightning based accessories and cables out there. Forcing
Apple to USB-C (1 year early) did nothing but accelerate a need for more cables and (too a lesser degree) accessories.
On 2024-09-17 13:33, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-16 16:50, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-16 17:07, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-15 12:20, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-14 16:26, Alan Browne wrote:
;
The European USB-C fiasco just creates more e-waste.
Not the point, of course. Apple's path was clear - forcing the
issue had no effect on e-waste.
Self-contradiction.
Not at all. You're neglecting that there are tons of perfectly well
functioning Lightning based accessories and cables out there. Forcing
Apple to USB-C (1 year early) did nothing but accelerate a need for
more cables and (too a lesser degree) accessories.
If you can't see that "forcing the issue had no effect on e-waste"
directly contradicts "European USB-C fiasco just creates more e-waste"
then you're obviously too stupid to be worth arguing with, and there's absolutely no point in continuing this discussion
Re-instates plonk filters.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2024-09-17 00:11, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2024-09-15 12:35, Java Jive wrote:
On 2024-09-15 16:26, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-15 10:40, Chris wrote:
Agree. Lightning should have died 3-4 years ago.
This is a product lifecycle decision that Apple make. EU should not >>>>>> be involved in business decisions.
They gave Apple over a decade to make that decision, but Apple failed to >>>>> do so, so the EU had to make it for them.
HS. Apple would have gotten the iPhone to USB-C on iPhone 16.
Cite? No-one knows this outside of Apple.
Pretty sure it was the consensus of all those who track these things by
inference or insider info. The Gurmans et al of the world.
So not a fact. A guess at best.
On 2024-09-15 09:21, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 14.09.24 17:26, Alan Browne wrote:
The European USB-C fiasco just creates more e-waste.
Brain dead idiot. And you do not understand the technicalities at all
and the fiasco is a figment of your imagniation.
Proven in the past that I know far more technically than you'll ever know.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2024-09-14 13:24, Tweed wrote:
Something else I’ve just discovered - vendors will not be able to bundle a
USB-C charger with the device, it must always be sold separately. So not >>> the vendor trying to swizz you with an extra sale.
Countries like Brazil (IIRC) actually *require* the charger be sold with
the device.
Another country meddling in business decisions.
"Business decisions" are not sacrosanct. They have to comply with all the relevant laws and regulations in the territories they trade in.
US government is "meddling" relentlessly against Chinese companies and products. That's OK, right?
On 15.09.24 17:24, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2024-09-15 09:21, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 14.09.24 17:26, Alan Browne wrote:
The European USB-C fiasco just creates more e-waste.
Brain dead idiot. And you do not understand the technicalities at all
and the fiasco is a figment of your imagniation.
Proven in the past that I know far more technically than you'll ever know.
What you proved in the first place in this thread and in the past is
that you urgently need the same professional help Arlen needs.
I have never seen so much pathological obsession about really nothing
and especially nothing you or Arlen can influence or change the public perception about.
Two tragic figures.
The news is replete with how the EU slowly but surely, one by one, forces Apple to do what every decent company has already done in terms of app
stores (e.g., Microsoft & Google have always allowed alternative repos).
Now, finally, Apple is allowing its customer base that basic decency; however, all the news says is that the EU forced Apple to be decent.
*Apple Will Make Alternative App Marketplaces and Browser Engines Available on the iPad in the EU Starting Monday*
<https://www.macstories.net/news/apple-will-make-alternative-app-marketplaces-and-browser-engines-available-in-the-eu-starting-monday/>
"You may recall that in April, the European Commission has added
iPadOS to the products and services subject to the Digital Markets
Act (DMA). Before then, the DMA only applied to the iPhone, meaning
that, if you live in the EU, changes to iOS, like browser default
choices and alternative app marketplaces, are currently only
available on your iPhone. That changes on Monday"
*Update on iPadOS 18 apps distributed in the European Union*
<https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=4sn7e783>>
"Starting September 16:
Users in the EU can download iPadOS apps on the App Store
and through alternative distribution...
Alternative browser engines can be used in iPadOS apps."
As of Brexit, the UK is not formally in the EU - but that's a political boundary (where the border-free Schengen Area is another such boundary).
My question, which those in the UK may be able to answer from experience,
is whether or not Apple extends common decencies forced upon it to the UK?
Do they?
<snip>
My question, which those in the UK may be able to answer from experience,
is whether or not Apple extends common decencies forced upon it to the UK?
Do they?
The news is replete with how the EU slowly but surely, one by one, forces Apple to do what every decent company has already done in terms of appThe words of a drama queen.
stores (e.g., Microsoft & Google have always allowed alternative repos).
Now, finally, Apple is allowing its customer base that basic decency; however, all the news says is that the EU forced Apple to be decent.