• IP (was: DMA is obsolete)

    From Stefan Monnier@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 3 10:50:06 2025
    When we discuss hardware designs at this level, reusable
    components that go into the system are often referred to as "IP
    cores" or just "IPs". For example, a UART might be an IP.

    FWIW, I hate this terminology which comes from "intellectual
    property" since it insists on the value of this only as
    a bargaining/power tool rather than for what it actually performs.

    Think of them as building blocks that go into, say, a SoC.

    Call them blocks, then.


    Stefan

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  • From Thomas Koenig@21:1/5 to Stefan Monnier on Sat May 3 15:15:29 2025
    Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> schrieb:
    When we discuss hardware designs at this level, reusable
    components that go into the system are often referred to as "IP
    cores" or just "IPs". For example, a UART might be an IP.

    FWIW, I hate this terminology which comes from "intellectual
    property" since it insists on the value of this only as
    a bargaining/power tool rather than for what it actually performs.

    It is also a bit misleading. Where I come from, "intellectual
    property" refers to patents.

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  • From John Levine@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 3 15:46:02 2025
    According to Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>:
    FWIW, I hate this terminology which comes from "intellectual
    property" since it insists on the value of this only as
    a bargaining/power tool rather than for what it actually performs.

    It is also a bit misleading. Where I come from, "intellectual
    property" refers to patents.

    Where I come from it also means copyright and trademarks.

    I agree that if it's a building block or a core, call it that.

    R's,
    John


    --
    Regards,
    John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
    Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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  • From Dan Cross@21:1/5 to johnl@taugh.com on Sat May 3 16:52:56 2025
    In article <vv5dnq$si6$1@gal.iecc.com>, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: >According to Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>:
    FWIW, I hate this terminology which comes from "intellectual
    property" since it insists on the value of this only as
    a bargaining/power tool rather than for what it actually performs.

    It is also a bit misleading. Where I come from, "intellectual
    property" refers to patents.

    Where I come from it also means copyright and trademarks.

    I agree that if it's a building block or a core, call it that.

    You don't have to like the terminology, but that's what is used
    across the field. Sorry if it's uncomfortable, and to be honest
    I don't care for it much myself, but them's the breaks. That's
    what AMD calls them, so if we're discussing AMD hardware, it
    makes sense to use their terminology.

    People in construction probably hate that computer people call
    things "blocks" that aren't made of concrete. I'm sure the
    networking people don't like it when the hardware people refer
    to "IPs" because of the obvious conflict with TCP/IP. I'm sure
    auto mechanics don't like it when mathematicians talk about
    "manifolds" that have nothing to do with car engines.

    Ambiguities in terminology abound across fields. But insisting
    that someone not use more or less standard terminology because
    it conflicts with something in another field is silly.

    - Dan C.

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  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to Dan Cross on Sat May 3 21:31:03 2025
    cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes:
    In article <vv5dnq$si6$1@gal.iecc.com>, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: >>According to Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>:
    FWIW, I hate this terminology which comes from "intellectual
    property" since it insists on the value of this only as
    a bargaining/power tool rather than for what it actually performs.

    It is also a bit misleading. Where I come from, "intellectual
    property" refers to patents.

    Where I come from it also means copyright and trademarks.

    I agree that if it's a building block or a core, call it that.

    You don't have to like the terminology, but that's what is used
    across the field. Sorry if it's uncomfortable, and to be honest
    I don't care for it much myself, but them's the breaks. That's
    what AMD calls them, so if we're discussing AMD hardware, it
    makes sense to use their terminology.

    We also call them IP blocks.

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  • From Stefan Monnier@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 3 23:04:28 2025
    You don't have to like the terminology, but that's what is used
    across the field. Sorry if it's uncomfortable, and to be honest
    I don't care for it much myself, but them's the breaks. That's
    what AMD calls them, so if we're discussing AMD hardware, it
    makes sense to use their terminology.

    People in construction probably hate that computer people call
    things "blocks" that aren't made of concrete.

    That comparison doesn't work, the problem with "IP" is not ambiguity,
    but that it's politically/ethically charged. That's why I hate it:
    because I disagree with the politics behind it (and hate the fact "they" managed to make "everyone" use it, without even paying attention to what
    it means).


    Stefan

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  • From Dan Cross@21:1/5 to monnier@iro.umontreal.ca on Sun May 4 09:56:10 2025
    In article <jwv4iy113qz.fsf-monnier+comp.arch@gnu.org>,
    Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
    You don't have to like the terminology, but that's what is used
    across the field. Sorry if it's uncomfortable, and to be honest
    I don't care for it much myself, but them's the breaks. That's
    what AMD calls them, so if we're discussing AMD hardware, it
    makes sense to use their terminology.

    People in construction probably hate that computer people call
    things "blocks" that aren't made of concrete.

    That comparison doesn't work, the problem with "IP" is not ambiguity,
    but that it's politically/ethically charged. That's why I hate it:
    because I disagree with the politics behind it (and hate the fact "they" >managed to make "everyone" use it, without even paying attention to what
    it means).

    Well, good luck getting the hardware engineers to change
    their nomenclature to suit your sensibilities there. *shrug*

    - Dan C.

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  • From Thomas Koenig@21:1/5 to Dan Cross on Sun May 4 10:17:12 2025
    Dan Cross <cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net> schrieb:
    In article <jwv4iy113qz.fsf-monnier+comp.arch@gnu.org>,
    Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
    You don't have to like the terminology, but that's what is used
    across the field. Sorry if it's uncomfortable, and to be honest
    I don't care for it much myself, but them's the breaks. That's
    what AMD calls them, so if we're discussing AMD hardware, it
    makes sense to use their terminology.

    People in construction probably hate that computer people call
    things "blocks" that aren't made of concrete.

    That comparison doesn't work, the problem with "IP" is not ambiguity,
    but that it's politically/ethically charged. That's why I hate it:
    because I disagree with the politics behind it (and hate the fact "they" >>managed to make "everyone" use it, without even paying attention to what
    it means).

    Well, good luck getting the hardware engineers to change
    their nomenclature to suit your sensibilities there. *shrug*

    Which begs the quesiton - can an IP with an IP be IP-protected?

    The main problem is probably the lack of acronym namespace. This is
    relatively harmless in this context, but can cause serious confusion
    when discussing, for example, chemicals with abbreviations.
    Serious misunderstanding can ensue, for example when "MC" can
    mean either Methyl Chloride (Chloromethane) or Methylene Chloride (Dichloromethane).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From MitchAlsup1@21:1/5 to Thomas Koenig on Sun May 4 18:16:23 2025
    On Sun, 4 May 2025 10:17:12 +0000, Thomas Koenig wrote:

    Dan Cross <cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net> schrieb:
    In article <jwv4iy113qz.fsf-monnier+comp.arch@gnu.org>,
    Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
    You don't have to like the terminology, but that's what is used
    across the field. Sorry if it's uncomfortable, and to be honest
    I don't care for it much myself, but them's the breaks. That's
    what AMD calls them, so if we're discussing AMD hardware, it
    makes sense to use their terminology.

    People in construction probably hate that computer people call
    things "blocks" that aren't made of concrete.

    That comparison doesn't work, the problem with "IP" is not ambiguity,
    but that it's politically/ethically charged. That's why I hate it: >>>because I disagree with the politics behind it (and hate the fact "they" >>>managed to make "everyone" use it, without even paying attention to what >>>it means).

    Well, good luck getting the hardware engineers to change
    their nomenclature to suit your sensibilities there. *shrug*

    Which begs the quesiton - can an IP with an IP be IP-protected?

    The main problem is probably the lack of acronym namespace. This is relatively harmless in this context, but can cause serious confusion
    when discussing, for example, chemicals with abbreviations.
    Serious misunderstanding can ensue, for example when "MC" can
    mean either Methyl Chloride (Chloromethane) or Methylene Chloride (Dichloromethane).

    DEI stood for "Dale Earnhardt Enterprises" for 2 decades before
    the bleeding hearts confiscated it.

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  • From Bill Findlay@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 4 19:37:42 2025
    On 4 May 2025, MitchAlsup1 wrote
    (in article<5aab775cfbbce60d4811dcebcfd69e33@www.novabbs.org>):

    DEI stood for "Dale Earnhardt Enterprises" for 2 decades before
    the bleeding hearts confiscated it.

    It would seem that those with heart bypasses also cannot spell.

    --
    Bill Findlay

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Thomas Koenig on Sun May 4 21:31:29 2025
    On Sun, 4 May 2025 10:17:12 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:

    Serious misunderstanding can ensue, for example when "MC" can mean
    either Methyl Chloride (Chloromethane) or Methylene Chloride (Dichloromethane).

    No chemist would refer to either of CH₃Cl or CH₂Cl₂ as “MC”.

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