• Re: Byte ordering (was: Whether something is RISC or not)

    From Anton Ertl@21:1/5 to David Brown on Fri Oct 4 17:30:07 2024
    David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
    On 04/10/2024 00:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    Compare this with the pain the x86 world went through, over a much longer
    time, to move to 32-bit.

    The x86 started from 8-bit roots, and increased width over time, which
    is a very different path.

    Still, the question is why they did the 286 (released 1982) with its
    protected mode instead of adding IA-32 to the architecture, maybe at
    the start with a 386SX-like package and with real-mode only, or with
    the MMU in a separate chip (like the 68020/68551).

    And much of the reason for it being a slow development is that the world
    was held back by MS's lack of progress in using new features. The 80386
    was produced in 1986, but the MS world was firmly at 16-bit under it
    gained a bit of 32-bit features with Windows 95. (Windows NT was 32-bit
    from 1993, and Win32s was from around the same time, but these were >relatively small in the market.)

    At that time the market was moving much slower than nowadays. Systems
    with a 286 (and maybe even the 8088) were sold for a long time after
    the 386 was introduced. E.g., the IBM PS/1 Model 2011 was released in
    1990 with a 10MHz 286, and the successor Model 2121 with a 386SX was
    not introduced until 1992. I think it's hard to blame MS for
    targeting the machines that were out there. And looking at <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_2.1x>, Windows 2.1 in 1988
    already was available in a Windows/386 version (but the programs were
    running in virtual 8086 mode, i.e., were still 16-bit programs).

    And it was not just MS who was going in that direction. MS and IBM
    worked on OS/2, and despite ambitious goals IBM insisted that the
    software had to run on a 286.

    The fact that the 386SX only appeared in 1988 also did not help.

    - anton
    --
    'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.'
    Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Anton Ertl on Sat Oct 5 06:31:02 2024
    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 17:30:07 GMT, Anton Ertl wrote:

    The fact that the 386SX only appeared in 1988 also did not help.

    As a software guy, I liked the idea of the 386SX, and encouraged friends/ colleagues to choose it over a 286.

    Of course, they wanted to compare price/performance, but I saw things in
    terms of future software compatibility, and the sooner the move away from braindead x86 segmentation towards a nice, flat, expansive, linear address space, the better for everybody.

    Sometimes I felt like a voice crying in the wilderness ...

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