• Re: Getting along without a keyboard

    From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Anssi Saari on Wed Sep 18 12:43:07 2024
    On 18/09/2024 11:36, Anssi Saari wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

    Unlike many feature rich routers, the draytek has a sanely organised
    user interface and the advanced features actually work...

    High praise. Which Draytek router BTW? I had one a few years ago but it
    was strangely broken and I eventually had to return it and as it was out
    of production I just got a refund. I went with a fairly awful Mikrotik
    until I got around to building my own from a PC Engines APU2 board.

    I have a Mikrotik HAPLITE TC as Wifi access point. Awful user
    interface, Nothing on it worked except by cribbing something off the
    net, I got it to work as a wifi access point!

    Very cheap tho

    Once I had incanted the right magic spell, it has been rock solid.


    My draytek is one with two voip phone sockets in.

    As the UK is moving away from everything except VOIP for landline
    phones, that would be handy, except the ISPs are reselling BTs
    proprietary shit and the old free SIPGATE doesn't like 'free' any more.


    Vigor 2762Vac

    System Up Time: 2398:28:36

    They are getting on for $200 now I think

    I really like how Draytek puts a simulation of their web interface
    online. Nothing like seeing it yourself, even if you can't really do
    anything in the simulation.

    I didn't know they did that!


    --
    Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
    name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
    or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
    logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
    the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
    face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

    Ayn Rand.

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  • From Scott Alfter@21:1/5 to tnp@invalid.invalid on Wed Sep 18 18:22:01 2024
    In article <vcca63$3je29$3@dont-email.me>,
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 17/09/2024 16:08, Scott Alfter wrote:
    In article <vcbji2$3evhe$4@dont-email.me>,
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Moral. Get a decent router so at least you can eliminate it from your
    problems

    Another recommendation: Look for something that can run OpenWRT, so you're >> not stuck with whatever firmware the router manufacturer provides.

    A third recommendation: a Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 and a carrier board >> that adds a second Ethernet port make a pretty good platform to run OpenWRT. >> The CPU and memory on the CM4 will blow the doors off of most of the routers >> you'd likely buy for home use, and I suspect they're competitive with nearly >> anything short of rack-mountable enterprise-grade routers. The onboard WiFi >> (on models so equipped) probably isn't so hot, but it's a solid option for >> wired connections up to at least gigabit speeds and WiFi can be provided
    with a separate access point or a USB dongle.


    Why a compute module especially?
    Wouldn't e.g. a Pi4 be just as good?

    You're stuck with USB network adapters if you use a Pi 4. With a CM4, there are carrier boards that route the built-in Ethernet to one port and connect
    a second port over PCIe. This is the one I use:

    https://wiki.dfrobot.com/Compute_Module_4_IoT_Router_Board_Mini_SKU_DFR0767

    --
    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Anssi Saari on Wed Sep 18 20:17:07 2024
    Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

    Unlike many feature rich routers, the draytek has a sanely organised
    user interface and the advanced features actually work...

    High praise. Which Draytek router BTW? I had one a few years ago but it
    was strangely broken and I eventually had to return it and as it was out
    of production I just got a refund. I went with a fairly awful Mikrotik
    until I got around to building my own from a PC Engines APU2 board.

    I really like how Draytek puts a simulation of their web interface
    online. Nothing like seeing it yourself, even if you can't really do
    anything in the simulation.

    I used Draytek routers until a year or so ago but now I'm 100% with
    Asus routers running asuswrt-merlin. It's another (much better) world.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Scott Alfter on Thu Sep 19 07:48:01 2024
    On 18/09/2024 19:22, Scott Alfter wrote:
    In article <vcca63$3je29$3@dont-email.me>,
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 17/09/2024 16:08, Scott Alfter wrote:
    In article <vcbji2$3evhe$4@dont-email.me>,
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Moral. Get a decent router so at least you can eliminate it from your
    problems

    Another recommendation: Look for something that can run OpenWRT, so you're >>> not stuck with whatever firmware the router manufacturer provides.

    A third recommendation: a Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 and a carrier board >>> that adds a second Ethernet port make a pretty good platform to run OpenWRT.
    The CPU and memory on the CM4 will blow the doors off of most of the routers
    you'd likely buy for home use, and I suspect they're competitive with nearly
    anything short of rack-mountable enterprise-grade routers. The onboard WiFi
    (on models so equipped) probably isn't so hot, but it's a solid option for >>> wired connections up to at least gigabit speeds and WiFi can be provided >>> with a separate access point or a USB dongle.


    Why a compute module especially?
    Wouldn't e.g. a Pi4 be just as good?

    You're stuck with USB network adapters if you use a Pi 4. With a CM4, there are carrier boards that route the built-in Ethernet to one port and connect
    a second port over PCIe. This is the one I use:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that hardly
    seems an issue

    https://wiki.dfrobot.com/Compute_Module_4_IoT_Router_Board_Mini_SKU_DFR0767


    --
    Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
    twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
    on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
    projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

    Richard Lindzen

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  • From druck@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Thu Sep 19 10:22:58 2024
    On 17/09/2024 20:39, Chris Green wrote:
    bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

    I've played with the idea of getting an open-wrt-compatible router in the
    past, but dropped the idea after finding nothing suitable at the local
    thrift store. Perhaps I should look again.

    I am using Asus routers now which, by default, run a version of OpenWrt called AsusWrt. However, even better, is asuswrt-merlin which is easy
    to install instead of Asuswrt and gives you all sorts of customisation
    if you want.

    I'll second that. Great WiFi strength, powerful multi-core CPUs and lots
    of RAM, unlike some other makes.

    Not all Asus routers can run Asuswrt-Merlin but there's a fair number
    that can and many of them are available at very reasonable prices
    secondhand on eBay or from such as CEX.

    I've picked up my last couple from e-bay, as ASUS routers are popular
    with gamers, and they must absolutely have the latest model to save
    0.5us of latency, so you can find some almost new routers going very
    cheap. I just upgraded my primary one to an RT-AX86U from an RT-AC86U
    also from e-bay.

    My original 10 year old RT-AC68U is still going strong, now used as a
    WiFi relay for the Pi's in the shed at the bottom of the garden - it
    gives 5GHz connection where the Pi's struggle with 2.4GHz.

    The user interface GUI is really nice (though quite complex because
    there is so much that can be configured).

    All very useful stuff, when you work out what it all does!

    It's also got good monitoring faculties, and all my remote Pi's are
    connected via it's built-in VPN.

    ---druck

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  • From Scott Alfter@21:1/5 to tnp@invalid.invalid on Thu Sep 19 16:12:22 2024
    In article <vcghf1$fidv$6@dont-email.me>,
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 18/09/2024 19:22, Scott Alfter wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Why a compute module especially?
    Wouldn't e.g. a Pi4 be just as good?

    You're stuck with USB network adapters if you use a Pi 4. With a CM4, there >> are carrier boards that route the built-in Ethernet to one port and connect >> a second port over PCIe. This is the one I use:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that hardly >seems an issue

    I suspect faster connections aren't nearly as uncommon as you think. My downstream speed at home is 300 Mbps, and it's far from the fastest service that Cox offers.

    In any case, if you're currently shopping for router hardware, I'd think a
    bit of future-proofing would be prudent.

    --
    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Sep 19 17:51:02 2024
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:48:01 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that hardly seems an issue

    I've had gigabit FTTH for a few years now - and I'm in rural
    Ireland. I use an old PC running FreeBSD as a router/firewall, I've never
    liked commercial routers, using a proper OS is so much easier.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
    For forms of government let fools contest
    Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu Sep 19 18:44:49 2024
    On 19/09/2024 17:51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:48:01 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that hardly
    seems an issue

    I've had gigabit FTTH for a few years now - and I'm in rural
    Ireland. I use an old PC running FreeBSD as a router/firewall, I've never liked commercial routers, using a proper OS is so much easier.

    I picked the 'economy' package at 40/10 Mps

    Its more than good enough for me

    What I like is the reliability of FTTP. Not the raw speed

    --
    Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
    But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Sep 19 19:10:45 2024
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 18:44:49 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 17:51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:48:01 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that
    hardly seems an issue

    I've had gigabit FTTH for a few years now - and I'm in rural
    Ireland. I use an old PC running FreeBSD as a router/firewall, I've
    never liked commercial routers, using a proper OS is so much easier.

    I picked the 'economy' package at 40/10 Mps

    Wow the only options on offer here are 500/50 or 1000/100 with the price increment for 1000/100 being minimal.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
    For forms of government let fools contest
    Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mm0fmf@21:1/5 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu Sep 19 22:01:49 2024
    On 19/09/2024 19:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 18:44:49 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 17:51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:48:01 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that
    hardly seems an issue

    I've had gigabit FTTH for a few years now - and I'm in rural
    Ireland. I use an old PC running FreeBSD as a router/firewall, I've
    never liked commercial routers, using a proper OS is so much easier.

    I picked the 'economy' package at 40/10 Mps

    Wow the only options on offer here are 500/50 or 1000/100 with the price increment for 1000/100 being minimal.

    There are plenty of midspeed packages so switching from cable/VDSL to
    fibre lets the ISPs sell you slow fibre for the same as VDSL etc.

    I have a 20/130Mbps cable package. My road was fibred and the same
    package was £17/month cheaper on fibre than cable. I could get moved to
    fibre and eventually move to 900/900Mbps. I moaned and moaned at the
    cable provider (Virgin) and they price matched the cable to stop me
    leaving. I didn't have to change anything which suits a lazy sod like me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Fri Sep 20 09:15:17 2024
    On 19/09/2024 19:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 18:44:49 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 17:51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:48:01 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that
    hardly seems an issue

    I've had gigabit FTTH for a few years now - and I'm in rural
    Ireland. I use an old PC running FreeBSD as a router/firewall, I've
    never liked commercial routers, using a proper OS is so much easier.

    I picked the 'economy' package at 40/10 Mps

    Wow the only options on offer here are 500/50 or 1000/100 with the price increment for 1000/100 being minimal.

    I bet your linux updates dont download any faster though...


    --
    “But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an hypothesis!”

    Mary Wollstonecraft

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 20 09:16:46 2024
    On 19/09/2024 22:01, mm0fmf wrote:
    On 19/09/2024 19:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 18:44:49 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 17:51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:48:01 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that
    hardly seems an issue

        I've had gigabit FTTH for a few years now - and I'm in rural
    Ireland. I use an old PC running FreeBSD as a router/firewall, I've
    never liked commercial routers, using a proper OS is so much easier.

    I picked the 'economy' package at 40/10 Mps

        Wow the only options on offer here are 500/50 or 1000/100 with the >> price increment for 1000/100 being minimal.

    There are plenty of midspeed packages so switching from cable/VDSL to
    fibre lets the ISPs sell you slow fibre for the same as VDSL etc.

    I have a 20/130Mbps cable package. My road was fibred and the same
    package was £17/month cheaper on fibre than cable. I could get moved to fibre and eventually move to 900/900Mbps. I moaned and moaned at the
    cable provider (Virgin) and they price matched the cable to stop me leaving.  I didn't have to change anything which suits a lazy sod like me.


    You mean you passed up an opportunity to leave Virgin and save money?
    Everyone I know who was on Virgin cable is now on something else.


    --
    “But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an hypothesis!”

    Mary Wollstonecraft

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From bp@www.zefox.net@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 14 01:07:03 2024
    I've recently set up an old Pi2 for use with a USB oscilloscope.
    The scope software is point and click for the most part. Is there
    some user interface trick to limp along using a mouse alone? Almost
    no keyboard input is required, so it needn't be fast or easy.

    An attempt to run raspi-config by copying the filename via the
    file manager and pasting it into the "run command" dialog failed,
    with neither error nor execution, though the "open" option did
    start an editor. That was a surprise.

    Thanks for reading and any suggestions.

    bob prohaska

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to bp@www.zefox.net on Sat Sep 14 07:16:04 2024
    bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    I've recently set up an old Pi2 for use with a USB oscilloscope.
    The scope software is point and click for the most part. Is there
    some user interface trick to limp along using a mouse alone? Almost
    no keyboard input is required, so it needn't be fast or easy.

    An attempt to run raspi-config by copying the filename via the
    file manager and pasting it into the "run command" dialog failed,
    with neither error nor execution, though the "open" option did
    start an editor. That was a surprise.

    Thanks for reading and any suggestions.

    You need a virtual keyboard, a web search for 'pi virtual keyboard'
    comes up with loads of hits.

    There are several in the standard Raspbian repositories:-

    apt search "on-screen keyboard"

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From Joerg Walther@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 20 16:17:53 2024
    mm0fmf wrote:

    There are plenty of midspeed packages so switching from cable/VDSL to
    fibre lets the ISPs sell you slow fibre for the same as VDSL etc.

    It won't take long until most ISPs will want to get rid of the double infrastructure VDSL/Fibre, it may happen soon that you will have to
    switch to Fibre or end up with no phone/internet connectivity at all.

    -jw-
    --
    And now for something completely different...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From bp@www.zefox.net@21:1/5 to Joerg Walther on Fri Sep 20 15:34:53 2024
    Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> wrote:

    It won't take long until most ISPs will want to get rid of the double infrastructure VDSL/Fibre, it may happen soon that you will have to
    switch to Fibre or end up with no phone/internet connectivity at all.


    Fearing the same, I asked my DSL provider what the foreseeable threats
    to my service might be. The answer was "squirrels".

    bob prohaska

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  • From mm0fmf@21:1/5 to Joerg Walther on Fri Sep 20 19:01:52 2024
    On 20/09/2024 15:17, Joerg Walther wrote:
    mm0fmf wrote:

    There are plenty of midspeed packages so switching from cable/VDSL to
    fibre lets the ISPs sell you slow fibre for the same as VDSL etc.

    It won't take long until most ISPs will want to get rid of the double infrastructure VDSL/Fibre, it may happen soon that you will have to
    switch to Fibre or end up with no phone/internet connectivity at all.

    -jw-
    I don't have a wired phone or xDSL, I have cable, DOCSIS 3 of some kind.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From mm0fmf@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Fri Sep 20 19:00:21 2024
    On 20/09/2024 09:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 19/09/2024 22:01, mm0fmf wrote:
    On 19/09/2024 19:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 18:44:49 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 17:51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:48:01 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that
    hardly seems an issue

        I've had gigabit FTTH for a few years now - and I'm in rural >>>>> Ireland. I use an old PC running FreeBSD as a router/firewall, I've
    never liked commercial routers, using a proper OS is so much easier. >>>>>
    I picked the 'economy' package at 40/10 Mps

        Wow the only options on offer here are 500/50 or 1000/100 with the >>> price increment for 1000/100 being minimal.

    There are plenty of midspeed packages so switching from cable/VDSL to
    fibre lets the ISPs sell you slow fibre for the same as VDSL etc.

    I have a 20/130Mbps cable package. My road was fibred and the same
    package was £17/month cheaper on fibre than cable. I could get moved
    to fibre and eventually move to 900/900Mbps. I moaned and moaned at
    the cable provider (Virgin) and they price matched the cable to stop
    me leaving.  I didn't have to change anything which suits a lazy sod
    like me.


    You mean you passed up an opportunity to leave Virgin and save money? Everyone I know who was on Virgin cable is now on something else.


    Well now you know someone who didn't.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Charlie Gibbs@21:1/5 to Joerg Walther on Fri Sep 20 18:40:50 2024
    On 2024-09-20, Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> wrote:

    mm0fmf wrote:

    There are plenty of midspeed packages so switching from cable/VDSL to
    fibre lets the ISPs sell you slow fibre for the same as VDSL etc.

    It won't take long until most ISPs will want to get rid of the double infrastructure VDSL/Fibre, it may happen soon that you will have to
    switch to Fibre or end up with no phone/internet connectivity at all.

    Locally, Telus pushed hard to replace copper with fibre, first with
    incentives, then replacement of remamining copper when we holdouts
    were few enough to make it worth their while. Now I can enjoy the
    loss of dial tone (and 911 service) when the power goes out, just
    like everybody else.

    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs | We'll go down in history as the
    \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | first society that wouldn't save
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | itself because it wasn't cost-
    / \ if you read it the right way. | effective. -- Kurt Vonnegut

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  • From Bob Latham@21:1/5 to none@invalid.com on Fri Sep 20 20:03:51 2024
    In article <vckd7n$16u5c$1@dont-email.me>,
    mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 20/09/2024 09:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 19/09/2024 22:01, mm0fmf wrote:

    [Snip]

    I have a 20/130Mbps cable package. My road was fibred and the
    same package was ú17/month cheaper on fibre than cable. I could
    get moved to fibre and eventually move to 900/900Mbps. I moaned
    and moaned at the cable provider (Virgin) and they price
    matched the cable to stop me leaving. I didn't have to change
    anything which suits a lazy sod like me.


    You mean you passed up an opportunity to leave Virgin and save
    money? Everyone I know who was on Virgin cable is now on
    something else.


    Well now you know someone who didn't.

    Similar for me. Been with Virgin since 2000 as BT were useless at
    that time. Yes, they're expensive but fast and reliable at least for
    me.

    This year we get leaflets through the door from BRSK for full fibre.
    But, they use CGNAT, not good and to get around that you can buy a
    static IP which is another ú5 per month.

    They were still cheaper by ú20 per month. Phoned up Virgin and moaned
    and moaned, they knocked ú16 off the bill so still ú4 more but it's a
    known product with known benefits/issues and the BRSK offer is just
    that, it will not last. It's just to draw new customers who will get
    a shock next time around.

    In addition I will not upset the neighbours by getting BRSK and
    therefore getting a pole installed for which I would not be thanked.

    Money is not the only factor.

    Bob.

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