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Wasn't there also a requirement for the battery to be user replaceable?
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Pamela wrote:
Wasn't there also a requirement for the battery to be user replaceable?
Not in effect for a couple of years, I think ...
https://environment.ec.europa.eu/news/new-law-more-sustainable-circular-and-safe-batteries-enters-force-2023-08-17_en
2027, though I canÆt find an exact date. Not just phones either.
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:45:14 -0000 (UTC), TweedI donÆt think so. Things like power tools, radios, toothbrushes etc. A user >replaceable EV battery could be quite a dangerous affair.
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Pamela wrote:
Wasn't there also a requirement for the battery to be user replaceable? >>>>Not in effect for a couple of years, I think ...
https://environment.ec.europa.eu/news/new-law-more-sustainable-circular-and-safe-batteries-enters-force-2023-08-17_en
2027, though I can?t find an exact date. Not just phones either.
Electric vehicles?
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:33:29 -0000 (UTC), TweedUnlikely. Batteries are around ú2500 per 10kWhr retail judging by the cost
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:45:14 -0000 (UTC), TweedI don?t think so. Things like power tools, radios, toothbrushes etc. A user >>> replaceable EV battery could be quite a dangerous affair.
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Pamela wrote:
Wasn't there also a requirement for the battery to be user replaceable? >>>>>>Not in effect for a couple of years, I think ...
https://environment.ec.europa.eu/news/new-law-more-sustainable-circular-and-safe-batteries-enters-force-2023-08-17_en
2027, though I can?t find an exact date. Not just phones either.
Electric vehicles?
It might improve the residual value though.
of a house battery.
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:47:44 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:33:29 -0000 (UTC), TweedUnlikely. Batteries are around £2500 per 10kWhr retail judging by the cost >of a house battery.
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:45:14 -0000 (UTC), TweedI don?t think so. Things like power tools, radios, toothbrushes etc. A user
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Pamela wrote:
Wasn't there also a requirement for the battery to be user replaceable?
Not in effect for a couple of years, I think ...
https://environment.ec.europa.eu/news/new-law-more-sustainable-circular-and-safe-batteries-enters-force-2023-08-17_en
2027, though I can?t find an exact date. Not just phones either.
Electric vehicles?
replaceable EV battery could be quite a dangerous affair.
It might improve the residual value though.
Would it not allow an aftermarket for generic batteries instead of
being bound by the OEM? I was offered a second hand Zoe at a very low
price at one stage but when I realised the battery arrangements (lease
from Renault) and the very low range of such a model I dismissed the
idea very quickly.
In uk.telecom.mobile Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:47:44 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:33:29 -0000 (UTC), TweedUnlikely. Batteries are around ú2500 per 10kWhr retail judging by the cost >> >of a house battery.
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:45:14 -0000 (UTC), TweedI don?t think so. Things like power tools, radios, toothbrushes etc. A user
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Pamela wrote:
Wasn't there also a requirement for the battery to be user replaceable?
Not in effect for a couple of years, I think ...
https://environment.ec.europa.eu/news/new-law-more-sustainable-circular-and-safe-batteries-enters-force-2023-08-17_en
2027, though I can?t find an exact date. Not just phones either.
Electric vehicles?
replaceable EV battery could be quite a dangerous affair.
It might improve the residual value though.
Would it not allow an aftermarket for generic batteries instead of
being bound by the OEM? I was offered a second hand Zoe at a very low
price at one stage but when I realised the battery arrangements (lease
from Renault) and the very low range of such a model I dismissed the
idea very quickly.
EV batteries weigh about 200kg. Consumers aren't going to be changing them >because they don't have the lifting gear (hydraulic lifts and scissor >tables). If you have gear unscrewing them from the bottom of the vehicle is >not complicated, although could be dangerous without safety precautions. In >no world are consumers going to be changing them like they change wiper >blades.
Batteries are designed to fit the car so you need to swap in an OEM battery
- just like engines it may theoretically be possible to swap something else, >but it's a lot of work (mechanically, electrically and software). There is >no standard 1.6 engine that'll fit in every car, and batteries are similarly >bespoke.
On 05 Jan 2025 20:19:22 +0000 (GMT), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
In uk.telecom.mobile Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:47:44 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:33:29 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:45:14 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:Electric vehicles?
Pamela wrote:
Wasn't there also a requirement for the battery to be user replaceable?
Not in effect for a couple of years, I think ...
https://environment.ec.europa.eu/news/new-law-more-sustainable-circular-and-safe-batteries-enters-force-2023-08-17_en
2027, though I can?t find an exact date. Not just phones either. >>>>>>>
I don?t think so. Things like power tools, radios, toothbrushes etc. A >>>>>> user replaceable EV battery could be quite a dangerous affair.
It might improve the residual value though.
Unlikely. Batteries are around ú2500 per 10kWhr retail judging by the
cost of a house battery.
Would it not allow an aftermarket for generic batteries instead of
being bound by the OEM? I was offered a second hand Zoe at a very low
price at one stage but when I realised the battery arrangements (lease
from Renault) and the very low range of such a model I dismissed the
idea very quickly.
EV batteries weigh about 200kg. Consumers aren't going to be changing them >> because they don't have the lifting gear (hydraulic lifts and scissor
tables). If you have gear unscrewing them from the bottom of the vehicle is >> not complicated, although could be dangerous without safety precautions. In >> no world are consumers going to be changing them like they change wiper
blades.
Batteries are designed to fit the car so you need to swap in an OEM battery >> - just like engines it may theoretically be possible to swap something else, >> but it's a lot of work (mechanically, electrically and software). There is >> no standard 1.6 engine that'll fit in every car, and batteries are similarly >> bespoke.
That puts paid to the idea of having a standard battery for all the
cars and swapping them from underneath at the filling station using a mechanical arm as was suggested at one time :-)
On 05 Jan 2025 20:19:22 +0000 (GMT), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
In uk.telecom.mobile Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:That puts paid to the idea of having a standard battery for all the
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:47:44 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 17:33:29 -0000 (UTC), TweedUnlikely. Batteries are around £2500 per 10kWhr retail judging by the cost
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 16:45:14 -0000 (UTC), TweedI don?t think so. Things like power tools, radios, toothbrushes etc. A user
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:Electric vehicles?
Pamela wrote:
Wasn't there also a requirement for the battery to be user replaceable?
Not in effect for a couple of years, I think ...
https://environment.ec.europa.eu/news/new-law-more-sustainable-circular-and-safe-batteries-enters-force-2023-08-17_en
2027, though I can?t find an exact date. Not just phones either. >>>>>>>
replaceable EV battery could be quite a dangerous affair.
It might improve the residual value though.
of a house battery.
Would it not allow an aftermarket for generic batteries instead of
being bound by the OEM? I was offered a second hand Zoe at a very low
price at one stage but when I realised the battery arrangements (lease
from Renault) and the very low range of such a model I dismissed the
idea very quickly.
EV batteries weigh about 200kg. Consumers aren't going to be changing them >> because they don't have the lifting gear (hydraulic lifts and scissor
tables). If you have gear unscrewing them from the bottom of the vehicle is >> not complicated, although could be dangerous without safety precautions. In >> no world are consumers going to be changing them like they change wiper
blades.
Batteries are designed to fit the car so you need to swap in an OEM battery >> - just like engines it may theoretically be possible to swap something else, >> but it's a lot of work (mechanically, electrically and software). There is >> no standard 1.6 engine that'll fit in every car, and batteries are similarly >> bespoke.
cars and swapping them from underneath at the filling station using a mechanical arm as was suggested at one time :-)
Anyone know how existing & new Google, Samsung & Apple phones are faring? >https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/product-list/smartphones-and-tablets_en
1. Resistance to accidental drops or scratches
& protection from dust & water
2. Sufficiently durable batteries which can withstand
at least 800 charge and discharge cycles
while retaining at least 80% of their initial capacity
3. Rules on disassembly and repair, including obligations
for producers to make critical spare parts available
within 5-10 working days, and for 7 years after
the end of sales of the product model on the EU market
4. Availability of operating system upgrades for longer periods
(at least 5 years from the date of the end of placement on
the market of the last unit of a product model)
5. Non-discriminatory access for professional repairers
to any software or firmware needed for the replacement
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 00:09:11 -0500, Isaac Montara
<IsaacMontara@nospam.com> wrote:
Anyone know how existing & new Google, Samsung & Apple phones are faring?
https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/product-list/smartphones-and-tablets_en
1. Resistance to accidental drops or scratches
& protection from dust & water
2. Sufficiently durable batteries which can withstand
at least 800 charge and discharge cycles
while retaining at least 80% of their initial capacity
3. Rules on disassembly and repair, including obligations
for producers to make critical spare parts available
within 5-10 working days, and for 7 years after
the end of sales of the product model on the EU market
4. Availability of operating system upgrades for longer periods
(at least 5 years from the date of the end of placement on
the market of the last unit of a product model)
5. Non-discriminatory access for professional repairers
to any software or firmware needed for the replacement
Will these regulations apply in the UK?
On 2025-01-03 09:47, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 00:09:11 -0500, Isaac Montara
<IsaacMontara@nospam.com> wrote:
Anyone know how existing & new Google, Samsung & Apple phones are faring? >>> https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/product-list/smartphones-and-tablets_en
1. Resistance to accidental drops or scratches
& protection from dust & water
2. Sufficiently durable batteries which can withstand
at least 800 charge and discharge cycles
while retaining at least 80% of their initial capacity
3. Rules on disassembly and repair, including obligations
for producers to make critical spare parts available
within 5-10 working days, and for 7 years after
the end of sales of the product model on the EU market
4. Availability of operating system upgrades for longer periods
(at least 5 years from the date of the end of placement on
the market of the last unit of a product model)
5. Non-discriminatory access for professional repairers
to any software or firmware needed for the replacement
Will these regulations apply in the UK?
As you have had explained to you at least twice before, they will become
a de facto standard, because it won't be worth the cost to the
manufacturers to produce a substantially different model for every
different market; on the contrary they will try and keep as much as
possible of every product the same world-wide.
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-01-03 09:47, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 00:09:11 -0500, Isaac Montara
<IsaacMontara@nospam.com> wrote:
Anyone know how existing & new Google, Samsung & Apple phones are faring? >>>> https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/product-list/smartphones-and-tablets_en
1. Resistance to accidental drops or scratches
& protection from dust & water
2. Sufficiently durable batteries which can withstand
at least 800 charge and discharge cycles
while retaining at least 80% of their initial capacity
3. Rules on disassembly and repair, including obligations
for producers to make critical spare parts available
within 5-10 working days, and for 7 years after
the end of sales of the product model on the EU market
4. Availability of operating system upgrades for longer periods
(at least 5 years from the date of the end of placement on
the market of the last unit of a product model)
5. Non-discriminatory access for professional repairers
to any software or firmware needed for the replacement
Will these regulations apply in the UK?
As you have had explained to you at least twice before, they will become
a de facto standard, because it won't be worth the cost to the
manufacturers to produce a substantially different model for every
different market; on the contrary they will try and keep as much as
possible of every product the same world-wide.
Well yes and no. The rules requiring Apple to allow third party App stores
do not apply to GB and you can’t access them in GB. (I’m being very careful
to exclude NI as I’m not sure how it works out for them). I pass no comment on the rights and wrongs of such App stores, just pointing out that the EU and GB markets are not entirely coincident.
Take the rule for battery life. If your phone battery breaches the 800
cycle 80% rule in the EU you might have rights to get the battery replaced free of charge, and you might not have those rights in GB.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 10:04:03 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
On 2025-01-03 09:47, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 00:09:11 -0500, Isaac Montara
<IsaacMontara@nospam.com> wrote:
Anyone know how existing & new Google, Samsung & Apple phones are faring? >>>> https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/product-list/smartphones-and-tablets_en
1. Resistance to accidental drops or scratches
& protection from dust & water
2. Sufficiently durable batteries which can withstand
at least 800 charge and discharge cycles
while retaining at least 80% of their initial capacity
3. Rules on disassembly and repair, including obligations
for producers to make critical spare parts available
within 5-10 working days, and for 7 years after
the end of sales of the product model on the EU market
4. Availability of operating system upgrades for longer periods
(at least 5 years from the date of the end of placement on
the market of the last unit of a product model)
5. Non-discriminatory access for professional repairers
to any software or firmware needed for the replacement
Will these regulations apply in the UK?
As you have had explained to you at least twice before, they will become
a de facto standard, because it won't be worth the cost to the
manufacturers to produce a substantially different model for every
different market; on the contrary they will try and keep as much as
possible of every product the same world-wide.
Evidently it is not quite as simple as that. In another thread it is explained that Apple have withdrawn phones with lightning connectors
from the EU market and continue to sell them in the UK.
I take your
point going forward about the de facto standard, but my question was
whether the new regs would apply de jure.
Apple may well continue to sell some existing production
in the UK but as already said it is unlikely they will make special UK
versions of new hardware.
Definitely true. The UK (or more likely GB) won't get specific models, but, as we're already seeing, will still get any models which do not comply with the EU regs .
Will these regulations apply in the UK?
As you have had explained to you at least twice before, they will become >>>> a de facto standard, because it won't be worth the cost to the
manufacturers to produce a substantially different model for every
different market; on the contrary they will try and keep as much as
possible of every product the same world-wide.
Evidently it is not quite as simple as that. In another thread it is
explained that Apple have withdrawn phones with lightning connectors
from the EU market and continue to sell them in the UK.
I haven't seen that other thread, but they may well be offloading old
stock pending newer models. Eventually market forces can be expected to
prevail.
Apple have removed the iphone 14 and SE from sale in the EU and Northern Ireland due to the regulations coming into effect on 30th December.
Both models are still available in the rest of the UK.
Chris wrote on Fri, 3 Jan 2025 13:20:20 -0000 (UTC) :
Apple may well continue to sell some existing production in the UK
but as already said it is unlikely they will make special UK versions
of new hardware.
Definitely true. The UK (or more likely GB) won't get specific models,
but,
as we're already seeing, will still get any models which do not comply
with
the EU regs .
Bear in mind that no iPhone older than the iPhone 15 meets the bare minimum battery lifetime charge cycle EU standard, while Android phones double it.