rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:

smolnet, as in things like https://small-tech.org/

Hey thanks for that link. The concept is interesting though idk about
the code. A little too much Javascript for "small tech", heh.

Python certainly has the tools. You can even construct a web server on a Raspberry Pi Pico but I don't know any specifics about smolnet.

The Pico uses MicroPython which is stuck on an old version of Python, unfortunately.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 10:40:52 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

The Pico uses MicroPython which is stuck on an old version of Python, unfortunately.

I think it's up to 3.4 in general and erratic past that. It doesn't have
the match from 3.10. I don't think it has f-strings though it may have
the walrus. There are workarounds but it can be annoying.

I haven't worked with CircuitPython lately and don't know if it has pulled
in later features.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 22 Aug 2024 04:25:17 GMT, rbowman wrote:

stall gopher, Fedora doesn't. Go figure.

"Use the sauce, Luke."

Arch has it in the AUR.

Built on these:
https://github.com/gophernicus/gophernicus (daemon) https://gopherus.sourceforge.net/ (client)

--
Gilmeh

...his disciples lead him in; he just does the rest. -- The Who, "Tommy"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 09:10:00 +0100, Daniel wrote:

If you have lynx, you can visit this gopher interface to Wikipedia:

gopher://gopherpedia.com

Yeah, that works and I could find Hillbilly Elegy (film). The text was
fine but the 'Accolades' table was garbled. It came up on the Netflix recommendations and I watched it last night so when it said 'Search' I
wanted to see what it would do. It came back with links to the book, the
film, the Vances, and cast member bios. It's a subset of the Wiki 'Search in..' but still impressive.

Python certainly will get the job done either on the client or server
side. Being retro tech should make life easier than some of the web
services frameworks.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 23/08/24 07:49, rbowman via Python-list wrote:

On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 10:40:52 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

The Pico uses MicroPython which is stuck on an old version of Python,
unfortunately.

How did this enter the conversation/thread?

Paul's 'contribution' does not even appear on the Archive...

I think it's up to 3.4 in general and erratic past that. It doesn't have
the match from 3.10. I don't think it has f-strings though it may have
the walrus. There are workarounds but it can be annoying.

Two points:

- it's cut-down to work on bare-metal which makes for low demands on
resources, but commensurate shortage of the facilities we CPython
developers take for-granted (ie may allow ourselves to find annoying)

- it has f-strings, but frustrates those of us who prefer F-strings

- the docs point-out that (compared with full-fat Python) it is less
consistent across environments. Accordingly, worth reading the "Quick
Reference for [your processor]" sections of the docs, eg R-Pi Pico
version only has half of the ADC-methods.


Once scale expectations to take into account the power of the processor, MicroPython goes-like-the-clappers!

I haven't worked with CircuitPython lately and don't know if it has pulled
in later features.

Have you (gentle reader) used both and feel able to offer a comparison -
when to prefer one over the other?



[https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/like-the-clappers.html]
--
Regards,
=dn

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

dn <PythonList@DancesWithMice.info> writes:

- it's cut-down to work on bare-metal which makes for low demands on
resources, but commensurate shortage of the facilities we CPython developers take for-granted (ie may allow ourselves to find annoying)

Later versions of Python (the language) aren't particularly more
demanding. MicroPython is just out of date in that regard. The high consumption stuff in CPython is mostly in the libraries.

MicroPython vs CircuitPython

Have you (gentle reader) used both and feel able to offer a comparison
- when to prefer one over the other?

CircuitPython is supposed to be more beginner-friendly and more
consistent across hardware. It also supports some hardware devices that MicroPython doesn't. I don't know how difficult it would be to port
those drivers if there was occasion to. MicroPython has more "export"
user options, including being able to compile in more language features
like bignum arithmetic. I think CircuitPython integers are limited to
32 bits.

Also, CircuitPython (maybe as part of its beginner friendliness)
supports the USB mass storagei interface out of the box. So you can buy
an Adafruit board with CircuitPython already on it, plug it into a USB
port, and have it auto-mount as a FAT32 file system to which you can
drag and drop files from your PC. With MicroPython on the Pico, you use
some command line utility to transfer files instead, but it is no big
deal.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 08:36:02 +1200, dn wrote:

On 23/08/24 07:49, rbowman via Python-list wrote:

On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 10:40:52 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

The Pico uses MicroPython which is stuck on an old version of Python,
unfortunately.

How did this enter the conversation/thread?

Paul's 'contribution' does not even appear on the Archive...

I'm probably guilty. I mentioned in passing the older protocols like
finger could even be implemented on something like the Pico W with
MicroPython.

I am confused by the cross-over to Python-list. I only read/post to comp.lang.python. Is that echoed to Python-list or vice versa?

I haven't worked with CircuitPython lately and don't know if it has
pulled in later features.

Have you (gentle reader) used both and feel able to offer a comparison -
when to prefer one over the other?

I've only used CircuitPython on the Adafruit Playground Express.

https://circuitpython.org/board/circuitplayground_express/

and MicroPython on the Pico W. Since then Adafruit has expanded their collection of boards and support them with CircuitPython.

One difference that makes them hard to compare is the Express has quite a
few on-board sensors like the Arduino Nano Sense 33, and interfaces to
them are baked into CircuitPython.

The Pico W has a wealth of I/O most doubling as I2C, PWM, or A/D with only
a onboard LED for the mandatory 'hello world' blink code. MicroPython is
more generic and you may have to import modules for specific external
devices like the SSD1306 OLED display. That's easily done with Thonny or pipkin.

As far as core Python I'd say they're similar. MicroPython is more generic
and may require more work to set up where Adafruit can match the boards
they have developed.

As I said it's been a while but MicroPython has the _threading module so
you can utilize both cores of the RP2040. Adafruit's new Feather has a
RP2040 and like the Pico W assumes you'll be using the PIO to externals
rather than anything onboard so CircuitPython probably has it.

https://www.adafruit.com/product/4884

From the horse's mouth:

"There is great C/C++ support, unofficial (but really good) Arduino
support, an official MicroPython port, and a CircuitPython port! We of
course recommend CircuitPython because we think it's the easiest way to
get started and it has support with most of our drivers, displays,
sensors, and more, supported out of the box so you can follow along with
our CircuitPython projects and tutorials."

I don't know if Adafruit has a RP2350 board yet but they say CircuitPython
will be even happier on the Pico 2.

https://www.adafruit.com/product/6006

For better or worse there are a lot more choices now than fiddling around
with the Arduino Uno back in the day.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 23 Aug 2024 03:43:15 GMT, rbowman wrote:

I am confused by the cross-over to Python-list. I only read/post to comp.lang.python. Is that echoed to Python-list or vice versa?

This has been happening, without asking our permission, for years.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 23/08/24 15:43, rbowman via Python-list wrote:

On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 08:36:02 +1200, dn wrote:

On 23/08/24 07:49, rbowman via Python-list wrote:

On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 10:40:52 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

The Pico uses MicroPython which is stuck on an old version of Python,
unfortunately.

How did this enter the conversation/thread?

Paul's 'contribution' does not even appear on the Archive...

I'm probably guilty. I mentioned in passing the older protocols like
finger could even be implemented on something like the Pico W with MicroPython.

The question arose because his message doesn't appear either in the conversation/email thread 'here', nor on the Archive. Perhaps not sent
to the list?

I am confused by the cross-over to Python-list. I only read/post to comp.lang.python. Is that echoed to Python-list or vice versa?

As I understand it, posts to 'the list' may be made at comp.lang.python
or by email. Once on the server, messages are reflected back to both.
Thus, Thunderbird is not set-up to use the newsgroup and keeps
complaining at me when it's asked to reply to both. So, all
contributions (from me) enter the server via email.

I haven't worked with CircuitPython lately and don't know if it has
pulled in later features.

Have you (gentle reader) used both and feel able to offer a comparison -
when to prefer one over the other?

I've only used CircuitPython on the Adafruit Playground Express. https://circuitpython.org/board/circuitplayground_express/
and MicroPython on the Pico W. Since then Adafruit has expanded their collection of boards and support them with CircuitPython.

One difference that makes them hard to compare is the Express has quite a
few on-board sensors like the Arduino Nano Sense 33, and interfaces to
them are baked into CircuitPython.

The Pico W has a wealth of I/O most doubling as I2C, PWM, or A/D with only
a onboard LED for the mandatory 'hello world' blink code. MicroPython is
more generic and you may have to import modules for specific external
devices like the SSD1306 OLED display. That's easily done with Thonny or pipkin.

Adding a display to the Pico-W is my next project... After that, gyros
(am thinking it may not go so well, on balance... hah!).

The Pico-W impresses. Its built-in Wi-Fi/Bluetooth capability makes life
a lot easier (inside building use).

Apart from the earlier comment, my biggest frustration has come from the
lack of facilities in Thonny compared with PyCharm - but will pick-up
skills there, no doubt.

Conversely, (to having a separate radio-chip) I think I prefer the idea
of being able to connect the Pico to whichever sensor(s) is/are actually-required. However, this is applied use - not learning or 'playing'.

As far as core Python I'd say they're similar. MicroPython is more generic and may require more work to set up where Adafruit can match the boards
they have developed.

As I said it's been a while but MicroPython has the _threading module so
you can utilize both cores of the RP2040. Adafruit's new Feather has a
RP2040 and like the Pico W assumes you'll be using the PIO to externals rather than anything onboard so CircuitPython probably has it.

https://www.adafruit.com/product/4884

From the horse's mouth:

"There is great C/C++ support, unofficial (but really good) Arduino
support, an official MicroPython port, and a CircuitPython port! We of
course recommend CircuitPython because we think it's the easiest way to
get started and it has support with most of our drivers, displays,
sensors, and more, supported out of the box so you can follow along with
our CircuitPython projects and tutorials."

Whilst agreeing with the "easiest way to get started" claim, it probably
also leads to the assumption that it will (later) be easier to run out
of capability. Hence, that MicroPython would be the better professional
option - assuming one already knows Python.

Yes, a degree of 'comparing apples with oranges' - and a
continually-moving target!

I don't know if Adafruit has a RP2350 board yet but they say CircuitPython will be even happier on the Pico 2.
https://www.adafruit.com/product/6006

No, out in the real-world, the Pico 2 is still vaporware.

For better or worse there are a lot more choices now than fiddling around with the Arduino Uno back in the day.

True.
Hence the question.
Thanks for the comments!

--
Regards,
=dn

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 19:56:54 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

With MicroPython on the Pico, you use some command line utility to
transfer files instead, but it is no big deal.

Loading the UF2 is easy.

https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/microcontrollers/
micropython.html

I use VS Code with the MicroPython extension so when the board is plugged
in it shows up as ttyACM0 or COM something I think on Windows. If you need
a package for a peripheral the file structure on the actually device shows
up so you can copy it to the lib directory.

https://pypi.org/project/pipkin/

pipkin is the command line utility. Thonny isn't my favorite IDE but it
does make life easy:

https://projects.raspberrypi.org/en/projects/getting-started-with-the-
pico/2

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 16:23:42 +1200, dn wrote:

Adding a display to the Pico-W is my next project... After that, gyros
(am thinking it may not go so well, on balance... hah!).

https://toptechboy.com/two-axis-tilt-meter-displaying-pitch-and-roll- using-an-mpu6050-on-the-raspberry-pi-pico-w/

You might have to go back a lesson or two for the lead up. As he generally
says in the intro most of what he uses is from the Sunfounder Kepler kit.
It has a standard LCD display but he suggested buying the OLED separately
and used it for Lissajous patterns and other fancier stuff.

It's not a bad series although he can be long-winded and his Python style definitely isn't PEP8 friendly.

https://toptechboy.com/

He switched to the Arduino Uno R4 after the IR controller/NeoPixel Pico
project and I don't know if he intends to go back to the Pico. He uses
Thonny but I use the MicroPython extension in VS Code. Lately I've been
using Code for everything. Mostly I work on Linux boxes but it's all the
same on Windows. There is a PlatformIO extension that works with Arduino
and other boards. PyLance upsets some because it's a MS product but it
works well too. I've used PyCharm and like it but I also work on C, .NET, Angular, and other projects and Code gives me a uniform IDE.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 20.08.2024 um 23:26 Uhr Daniel wrote:

New here. I've perused some posts and haven't seen a posting FAQ for
this NG. I'm learning python right now to realize some hobby goals I
have regarding some smolnet services. What are the NG standards on
pasting code in messages? Do yall prefer I post a pastebin link if
it's over a certain number of lines? I know this isn't IRC - just
asking.

Welcome!

Pastebin and other stuff has the disadvantage that the content might be
removed later.

What about pasting it under your actual message if it is really too
long?

--
kind regards
Marco

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)