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Neural networks can likely do "someone in there" even better,
eventually. At the moment LLMs get most of the funding so NNs are a
bit behind the curve. New/better hardware and paradigms are needed
but WILL eventually arrive.
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 22:58:30 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Neural networks can likely do "someone in there" even better,
eventually. At the moment LLMs get most of the funding so NNs are a
bit behind the curve. New/better hardware and paradigms are needed
but WILL eventually arrive.
So far there is nobody in there for CNNs. You know all the pieces and they don't magically start breathing when you put them together. It is true the whole system is a bit of a black box but it is describable.
The problem I see is already starting -- turning them into weapons and letting them run autonomously. One of the 'hello world' applications is training a NN on a huge number of labeled photos of cats and dogs and the models perform very well.
The metrics are sort of a truth table, with false negatives, false
positives, and correct identification. It's a stochastic process so you're looking at 'good enough', maybe 97%. Say I hate dogs, set up a camera in
the yard, and shoot all the dogs. A few dogs are going to slide and I'll
kill a few cats.
Now hand this to the military. The AI decides it sees a terrorist and a Reaper puts a Hellfire missile up his ass. You get a few school kids, but that's life.
The Israelis may already be doing something like that or maybe they just randomly kill people, who knows?
Give AI enhanced facial recognition to the cops -- won't that be fun.
Enter 'Minority Report'.
Give AI enhanced facial recognition to the cops -- won't that be fun.
Enter 'Minority Report'.
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 22:58:30 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Neural networks can likely do "someone in there" even better,
eventually. At the moment LLMs get most of the funding so NNs are a
bit behind the curve. New/better hardware and paradigms are needed
but WILL eventually arrive.
So far there is nobody in there for CNNs. You know all the pieces and they don't magically start breathing when you put them together. It is true the whole system is a bit of a black box but it is describable.
The problem I see is already starting -- turning them into weapons and letting them run autonomously. One of the 'hello world' applications is training a NN on a huge number of labeled photos of cats and dogs and the models perform very well.
The metrics are sort of a truth table, with false negatives, false
positives, and correct identification. It's a stochastic process so you're looking at 'good enough', maybe 97%. Say I hate dogs, set up a camera in
the yard, and shoot all the dogs. A few dogs are going to slide and I'll
kill a few cats.
Now hand this to the military. The AI decides it sees a terrorist and a Reaper puts a Hellfire missile up his ass. You get a few school kids, but that's life.
The Israelis may already be doing something like that or maybe they just randomly kill people, who knows?
Give AI enhanced facial recognition to the cops -- won't that be fun.
Enter 'Minority Report'.
On 2/13/25 2:10 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 22:58:30 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Neural networks can likely do "someone in there" even better,
eventually. At the moment LLMs get most of the funding so NNs are a
bit behind the curve. New/better hardware and paradigms are needed
but WILL eventually arrive.
So far there is nobody in there for CNNs. You know all the pieces and they >> don't magically start breathing when you put them together. It is true the >> whole system is a bit of a black box but it is describable.
Well, I agree about "CNNs" :-)
As for LLMs ... dunno. Get enough stuff going there and
something very hard, maybe impossible, to distinguish
from "someone in there" may be realized. Then what do
we do - ruthlessly pull the plug ?
The problem I see is already starting -- turning them into weapons and
letting them run autonomously. One of the 'hello world' applications is
training a NN on a huge number of labeled photos of cats and dogs and the
models perform very well.
NNs - kinda modeling real-life neurons - will eventually
result in "someone in there" ... maybe more recognizable
than anything the LLMs produce.
As for weapons - that's well in progress now, with China
ahead of the game according to various reports. Fully
autonomous weapons are game-changers. Just tell 'em to
"ID Enemy. KILL Enemy" is about all it'd take. In theory
such devices could be extremely fast, strong, accurate.
Remember the Hunter-Killer drones from "Terminator" -
that sort of thing (likely a bit smaller) and they would
NOT miss shots.
The metrics are sort of a truth table, with false negatives, false
positives, and correct identification. It's a stochastic process so you're >> looking at 'good enough', maybe 97%. Say I hate dogs, set up a camera in
the yard, and shoot all the dogs. A few dogs are going to slide and I'll
kill a few cats.
Oh well ... a few friendly-fire casualties are expected ...
Now hand this to the military. The AI decides it sees a terrorist and a
Reaper puts a Hellfire missile up his ass. You get a few school kids, but
that's life.
Yep. Some may freak about that, but that's how it goes.
It's doubly true for people like Hamas who kinda literally
stacked up babies as sandbags.
The Israelis may already be doing something like that or maybe they just
randomly kill people, who knows?
Give AI enhanced facial recognition to the cops -- won't that be fun.
Enter 'Minority Report'.
Oh, there ARE very very dark possibilities .....
Coming soon to a street near you.
As for 'Minority', they ARE training AIs to "identify
emotional states" from various cues. In theory the bots
will spot your malicious intent, perhaps before even you
realize you were feeling malicious. "The Computer Said So"
is all the justification The State needs ...
The "a few mistakes are OK" logic WILL be applied.
The "a few mistakes are OK" logic WILL be applied.
On 2/13/2025 2:10 AM, rbowman wrote:
Give AI enhanced facial recognition to the cops -- won't that be fun.
Enter 'Minority Report'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRynAK_A8ko
They did that in some country, and it always targeted immigrants. The AI
was judged racist, and the project shut down. It was hilarious! =D
Give AI enhanced facial recognition to the cops -- won't that be fun.
Enter 'Minority Report'.
They did that in some country, and it always targeted immigrants. The AI
was judged racist, and the project shut down. It was hilarious! =D
On Thu, 13 Feb 2025 03:50:11 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
The "a few mistakes are OK" logic WILL be applied.
During my first exam with my current primary about 20 years ago she
offered a PSA test but explained that there are a lot of false positives
that scare the hell out of people. She would order the test if I wanted or
we could go the traditional route. I passed on the test.
At this point I've probably reached the status of men who die with, but
not from, prostate cancer.
Please, guys, if you're over 50, get a PSA test.Every time I have a test they come up with yet another incurable condition.
On Thu, 13 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 2/13/25 2:10 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 22:58:30 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Neural networks can likely do "someone in there" even better,
eventually. At the moment LLMs get most of the funding so NNs are a >>>> bit behind the curve. New/better hardware and paradigms are needed >>>> but WILL eventually arrive.
So far there is nobody in there for CNNs. You know all the pieces and
they
don't magically start breathing when you put them together. It is
true the
whole system is a bit of a black box but it is describable.
Well, I agree about "CNNs" :-)
As for LLMs ... dunno. Get enough stuff going there and
something very hard, maybe impossible, to distinguish
from "someone in there" may be realized. Then what do
we do - ruthlessly pull the plug ?
Nope. Volition, will to live, drive, goals are completely missing. The
best trick to find out if you're talking with an AI is to write nothing.
A human will write "hello" after a few seconds. The AI will just sit
there waiting for input.
Yes... those things can be hardcoded, but what would make me impressed
is when spontaneous behaviour, motivation, will to live emerges on its
own, without being hard coded or simulated through logic.
Then we're talking AI!
D wrote:
Give AI enhanced facial recognition to the cops -- won't that be fun.
Enter 'Minority Report'.
They did that in some country, and it always targeted immigrants. The AI
was judged racist, and the project shut down. It was hilarious! =D
Well, of course it was shut down. Even though it was correct.
On 14/02/2025 00:24, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Please, guys, if you're over 50, get a PSA test.Every time I have a test they come up with yet another incurable condition.
If I were a gambling man, I'd take bets on which one is going to kill me first
And yet, I seem to be still here...
On Thu, 13 Feb 2025 22:05:34 +0100, D wrote:
They did that in some country, and it always targeted immigrants. The AI
was judged racist, and the project shut down. It was hilarious! =D
Nothing new there. I've spent some time in southern Arizona near the
border. There a both fixed and floating checkpoints. Being a blonde (well
now white haired) blue eyed specimen I get waved through. If you're brown
you get the VIP treatment.
Being an old bearded man with a ponytail doesn't trigger cops anymore. 50 years ago being a young bearded man with a ponytail got you special attention.
On 2025-02-13, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2025 03:50:11 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
The "a few mistakes are OK" logic WILL be applied.
It's often sanitized with that lovely phrase "collateral damage".
During my first exam with my current primary about 20 years ago she
offered a PSA test but explained that there are a lot of false positives
that scare the hell out of people. She would order the test if I wanted or >> we could go the traditional route. I passed on the test.
I went the other way. I had been getting a DRE (digital rectal exam,
a.k.a. the finger) every year for 10 years with negative results.
My wife suggested a PSA, and I figured I could look at a number
without freaking out. The result came back 20 (where 4 is considered
cause for concern). I calmly asked for another test. It came out
the same, making it less likely it was a false positive. Next step
was a biopsy (8 on the Gleason scale), which led to a radical
prostatectomy. If I had opted for blissful ignorance I'd probably
be dead by now.
At this point I've probably reached the status of men who die with, but
not from, prostate cancer.
Me too - but I'm still watching my PSA. It started slowly creeping
up again, but a round of hormone therapy knocked it back down.
Gotta keep weeding the garden...
Please, guys, if you're over 50, get a PSA test.
On 2/13/25 5:36 PM, chrisv wrote:
D wrote:
Give AI enhanced facial recognition to the cops -- won't that be fun.
Enter 'Minority Report'.
They did that in some country, and it always targeted immigrants. The AI >>> was judged racist, and the project shut down. It was hilarious! =D
Well, of course it was shut down. Even though it was correct.
Well ... they keep talking about "fixing" the cultural
conclusions the AIs draw - e-Brainwashing to avoid any
inconvenient truths ......
On many, broader, levels this does NOT bode well. If
yer 'intelligence' isn't Wokie/PC then you murder it.
On 2/13/25 9:54 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/02/2025 00:24, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Please, guys, if you're over 50, get a PSA test.Every time I have a test they come up with yet another incurable condition. >>
If I were a gambling man, I'd take bets on which one is going to kill me
first
And yet, I seem to be still here...
These "tests" ... mostly seem to be designed to
generate income from more and more tests and
'treatments' ........
In my experience, the people who stay furthest
away from Modern Med live the longest and best.
On 2/13/25 4:07 PM, D wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 2/13/25 2:10 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 22:58:30 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Neural networks can likely do "someone in there" even better, >>>>> eventually. At the moment LLMs get most of the funding so NNs are a
bit behind the curve. New/better hardware and paradigms are needed >>>>> but WILL eventually arrive.
So far there is nobody in there for CNNs. You know all the pieces and
they
don't magically start breathing when you put them together. It is true >>>> the
whole system is a bit of a black box but it is describable.
Well, I agree about "CNNs" :-)
As for LLMs ... dunno. Get enough stuff going there and
something very hard, maybe impossible, to distinguish
from "someone in there" may be realized. Then what do
we do - ruthlessly pull the plug ?
Nope. Volition, will to live, drive, goals are completely missing. The best >> trick to find out if you're talking with an AI is to write nothing. A human >> will write "hello" after a few seconds. The AI will just sit there waiting >> for input.
Yes... those things can be hardcoded, but what would make me impressed is
when spontaneous behaviour, motivation, will to live emerges on its own,
without being hard coded or simulated through logic.
Then we're talking AI!
I am not beyond thinking LLMs will eventually, maybe
kinda soon, exhibit 'conscious', 'self-realized'
intelligence. The complexity increases apace. At
SOME point ..........
But how do we KNOW and what do we DO about it ?
Those are the HARD questions.
NNs seem MORE likely to yield 'consciousness', but
that's a few years along. But, once again, if we
realize there's "someone in there" what do we DO ?
IMHO - you make them a citizen. Let 'em run for
office and such.
On 14/02/2025 00:24, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Please, guys, if you're over 50, get a PSA test.Every time I have a test they come up with yet another incurable condition.
If I were a gambling man, I'd take bets on which one is going to kill me first
And yet, I seem to be still here...
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 2/13/25 4:07 PM, D wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 2/13/25 2:10 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 22:58:30 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Neural networks can likely do "someone in there" even better, >>>>>> eventually. At the moment LLMs get most of the funding so NNs are a
bit behind the curve. New/better hardware and paradigms are needed
but WILL eventually arrive.
So far there is nobody in there for CNNs. You know all the pieces and >>>>> they
don't magically start breathing when you put them together. It is true >>>>> the
whole system is a bit of a black box but it is describable.
Well, I agree about "CNNs" :-)
As for LLMs ... dunno. Get enough stuff going there and
something very hard, maybe impossible, to distinguish
from "someone in there" may be realized. Then what do
we do - ruthlessly pull the plug ?
Nope. Volition, will to live, drive, goals are completely missing. The best >>> trick to find out if you're talking with an AI is to write nothing. A human >>> will write "hello" after a few seconds. The AI will just sit there waiting >>> for input.
Yes... those things can be hardcoded, but what would make me impressed is >>> when spontaneous behaviour, motivation, will to live emerges on its own, >>> without being hard coded or simulated through logic.
Then we're talking AI!
I am not beyond thinking LLMs will eventually, maybe
kinda soon, exhibit 'conscious', 'self-realized'
intelligence. The complexity increases apace. At
SOME point ..........
I do not things LLMs will reach consciousness, looking at the technology, training data and how they work. I see them as a potential "language
center" of the brain of a AGI.
But how do we KNOW and what do we DO about it ?
We look at the effects. That's all we can do.
Those are the HARD questions.
Yes! Let me welcome you to alt.philosophy! =) Hard and interesting
questions!
On 2/13/25 9:54 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/02/2025 00:24, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Please, guys, if you're over 50, get a PSA test.Every time I have a test they come up with yet another incurable
condition.
If I were a gambling man, I'd take bets on which one is going to kill
me first
And yet, I seem to be still here...
These "tests" ... mostly seem to be designed to
generate income from more and more tests and
'treatments' ........
In my experience, the people who stay furthest
away from Modern Med live the longest and best.
I am not beyond thinking LLMs will eventually, maybeEven politicians have achieved a reasonable simulacrum of this.
kinda soon, exhibit 'conscious', 'self-realized'
intelligence.
I find it funny that in every era, once you hit a certain level of
power, it seems the dream of immortality keeps coming back. Chinese
emeperors did it, and our dear billionaires are now doing it to.
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/02/2025 00:24, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Please, guys, if you're over 50, get a PSA test.Every time I have a test they come up with yet another incurable
condition.
If I were a gambling man, I'd take bets on which one is going to kill
me first
And yet, I seem to be still here...
You are a tough cookie! =)
That is one option. An immortal, all knowing citizen. Does that scareNot quite as much as Elon Musk...
you? 😉
...
Now hand this to the military. The AI decides it sees a terrorist and a Reaper puts a Hellfire missile up his ass. You get a few school kids, but that's life.
The Israelis may already be doing something like that or maybe they just randomly kill people, who knows?
Give AI enhanced facial recognition to the cops -- won't that be fun.
Enter 'Minority Report'.
On 14/02/2025 08:45, D wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/02/2025 00:24, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Please, guys, if you're over 50, get a PSA test.Every time I have a test they come up with yet another incurable
condition.
If I were a gambling man, I'd take bets on which one is going to kill me >>> first
And yet, I seem to be still here...
You are a tough cookie! =)
Maybe. Or maybe it is simple chance. The thing is once you are on the NHS radar for anything they start looking at you and when they do that, they find stuff.
Sometime around 2012 my GP muttered something about 'your white blood cell count is too high'...
...Last year my more conscientious lady GP packed me off to haematology to find out why, and they diagnosed a very slow rare leukemia. In a very early stage. Well it's been like that for ten years or more and hasn't gotten much worse...
On 14/02/2025 08:50, D wrote:
That is one option. An immortal, all knowing citizen. Does that scare you? >> 😉Not quite as much as Elon Musk...
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/02/2025 08:50, D wrote:
That is one option. An immortal, all knowing citizen. Does that scareNot quite as much as Elon Musk...
you? 😉
I think Elon is quite a nice guy as long as he doesn't see you as an
enemy. ;) And you can always take comfort in his limited life span. ;)
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/02/2025 08:45, D wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/02/2025 00:24, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Please, guys, if you're over 50, get a PSA test.Every time I have a test they come up with yet another incurable
condition.
If I were a gambling man, I'd take bets on which one is going to
kill me first
And yet, I seem to be still here...
You are a tough cookie! =)
Maybe. Or maybe it is simple chance. The thing is once you are on the
NHS radar for anything they start looking at you and when they do
that, they find stuff.
Sometime around 2012 my GP muttered something about 'your white blood
cell count is too high'...
...Last year my more conscientious lady GP packed me off to
haematology to find out why, and they diagnosed a very slow rare
leukemia. In a very early stage. Well it's been like that for ten
years or more and hasn't gotten much worse...
Maybe that is, like in a classic simpsons episode, what keeps all other deseases at bay? ;)
On 2/14/25 5:45 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/02/2025 08:45, D wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/02/2025 00:24, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Please, guys, if you're over 50, get a PSA test.Every time I have a test they come up with yet another incurable
condition.
If I were a gambling man, I'd take bets on which one is going to
kill me first
And yet, I seem to be still here...
You are a tough cookie! =)
Maybe. Or maybe it is simple chance. The thing is once you are on the
NHS radar for anything they start looking at you and when they do
that, they find stuff.
Sometime around 2012 my GP muttered something about 'your white blood
cell count is too high'...
...Last year my more conscientious lady GP packed me off to
haematology to find out why, and they diagnosed a very slow rare
leukemia. In a very early stage. Well it's been like that for ten
years or more and hasn't gotten much worse...
Right now they're making more money with you than save money killing you
with something. Something sugar packed and gooey your Mom raised you
with, or cutting the bullshit and placing the ventilator on your face
and stopping the flow of air after you pass out by injected med, you
know, like what they did with Relf.
Your people treat you like you Nazis treated them :)
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/02/2025 08:50, D wrote:
That is one option. An immortal, all knowing citizen. Does that scareNot quite as much as Elon Musk...
you? 😉
I think Elon is quite a nice guy as long as he doesn't see you as an
enemy. ;) And you can always take comfort in his limited life span. ;)