| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 35 |
| Nodes: | 6 (1 / 5) |
| Uptime: | 21:18:08 |
| Calls: | 331 |
| Files: | 986 |
| Messages: | 107,658 |
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:
Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable
threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
create new ones.
Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.
The sorry Dimdows 11 saga continues <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11s-bug-fixing-update-is-making-things-worse/>.
This latest update is actually *adding* more net bugs on top of the
previous revision of the OS.
Have we gone beyond the Brooks threshold, and now entered a Kessler
Syndrome of runaway bug proliferation, where instead of merely creating
about one new bug for every one fixed, the “fixes” are actually adding
to an exponential decline in Microsoft’s software quality?
You thought it was a fluke? The troubles continue <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-update-breaks-file-explorer-among-other-glitches/>.
Now Microsoft is breaking basic things like File Explorer!
Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
create new ones.
Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.
Let's be honest for a second: every operating system introduces new bugs
when it fixes old ones.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:
Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable
threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
create new ones.
Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.
The sorry Dimdows 11 saga continues
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11s-bug-fixing-update-is-making-things-worse/>.
This latest update is actually *adding* more net bugs on top of the
previous revision of the OS.
Have we gone beyond the Brooks threshold, and now entered a Kessler
Syndrome of runaway bug proliferation, where instead of merely
creating about one new bug for every one fixed, the “fixes” are
actually adding to an exponential decline in Microsoft’s software
quality?
This is nothing new, public beta testing, just run 23H2 or better yet, upgrade to Linux.
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 07:11:42 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
Let's be honest for a second: every operating system introduces new bugs
when it fixes old ones.
No, reasonably-designed code manages to decrease bugs in existing features over time. Bugs in new features will happen, yes.
There is an old engineering adage: complexity arises, not so much from the number of components, as from the number of potential interactions between them.
Open-source systems tend to have clear separation of functions between components, which helps keep unexpected interactions between them, in particular, down to a minimum. This allows them to scale to massive application deployments, like million-node supercomputers or running the entire Internet.
The same cannot be said for Microsoft Windows. The original Windows NT concept may have had some kind of conceptual integrity at one point. But
that has since been lost under an ongoing wave of short-sighted management decisions driven entirely by pursuit of immediate profits.
And today, Microsoft’s own experts have no clear idea what Windows is
doing any more. Why do you think it needs to reboot about five times just
to do an OS install?
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
[Windows 11 24H2 is in] public beta testing, just run 23H2 or better yet, >>> upgrade to Linux.
"The latest issue centers around the Windows 11 24H2 preview update"
^^^^^^^
Yeah, we don't install those. Those are voluntary, in that you click
that if you think there is something in that update for you.
It will appear again on Patch Tuesday, which would be the 11th of February. >>
A valuable place to gather intelligence, is the Reliability Monitor,
which keeps certain kinds of failures in a chart form. Nobody seems to
have bothered in that article, to check for messages in there.
That's an alternative to looking in EventVwr.msc .
TO get there, open Settings and type "Relia" into the top search bar.
The preview update isn't the only bug I've heard about in Win12 I mean
11 24H2. Honestly, having an actual good PC, that I assembled from
quality parts, I never encountered bugs with Win11 updates. That
having been said, it seems worse since I deleted Win11 23H2 early in
that build's life. Maybe if I'm not running Winblows, M$ expects
everyone else to be smart enough to follow the leader, well, I try, I
post here on COLA, I make Linux look cool, I talk to Copilot in a Web
app, but I can't just wave my hand and make people wake up to how
shitty Winblows is, and replace it. So the stats remain with Windows
being heavily dominant.
On 2025-02-07 4:34 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
And today, Microsoft’s own experts have no clear idea what Windows is
doing any more. Why do you think it needs to reboot about five times
just to do an OS install?
I have to admit those reboots are a nuisance. Of course, Fedora rebooted pretty often too.
Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a
manageable threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug
would just create new ones.
Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:
Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a
manageable threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug
would just create new ones.
Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.
Further evidence <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/this-months-windows-updates-are-removing-the-copilot-app-accidentally/>:
now a Dimdows update deletes your Copilot app and taskbar icon, and
the only workaround is to put it all back again yourself:
Microsoft says it is "working on a resolution to address the
issue" but that users who want to get Copilot back can reinstall
the app from the Microsoft Store and repin it to the taskbar, the
same process you use to install Copilot on PCs where it has been
removed.
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:
Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a
manageable threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug
would just create new ones.
Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.
Further evidence <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/this-months-windows-updates-are-removing-the-copilot-app-accidentally/>:
now a Dimdows update deletes your Copilot app and taskbar icon, and
the only workaround is to put it all back again yourself:
Microsoft says it is "working on a resolution to address the
issue" but that users who want to get Copilot back can reinstall
the app from the Microsoft Store and repin it to the taskbar, the
same process you use to install Copilot on PCs where it has been
removed.
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:
Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a
manageable threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug
would just create new ones.
Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.
Further evidence
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/this-months-windows-updates-are-removing-the-copilot-app-accidentally/>:
now a Dimdows update deletes your Copilot app and taskbar icon, and
the only workaround is to put it all back again yourself:
"deletes your Copilot app" "from *SOME* Windows 11 PCs"
Perhaps another case of thousands in billions, like your previous FUD?
Anyway, the Copilot app did not get deleted from my system. Sorry
about that. (There never was a Taskbar icon, so a tad hard to delete
that.)
Let's hear from others, who - unlike you - actually have/use this
stuff.
Microsoft says it is "working on a resolution to address the
issue" but that users who want to get Copilot back can reinstall
the app from the Microsoft Store and repin it to the taskbar, the
same process you use to install Copilot on PCs where it has been
removed.
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
Well, it seems to keep *you* quite busy.
On 2025-03-17 17:37, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:machine is always put to suspend as it should be and shut down properly, yet Windows breaks even when you use it properly. I can only imagine how "slow" the machine gets for users who don't know about these repair options and the constant need to execute
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 21:55:15 -0000 (UTC), I wrote:
Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a
manageable threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug
would just create new ones.
Microsoft passed this point a long time ago.
Further evidence
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/this-months-windows-updates-are-removing-the-copilot-app-accidentally/>:
now a Dimdows update deletes your Copilot app and taskbar icon, and
the only workaround is to put it all back again yourself:
Microsoft says it is "working on a resolution to address the
issue" but that users who want to get Copilot back can reinstall
the app from the Microsoft Store and repin it to the taskbar, the >> same process you use to install Copilot on PCs where it has been
removed.
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
I can't disagree with the last part. Unsurprisingly, even yesterday, I ran an sfc /scannow & dism /online /cleanup-image /scanhealth combination, and I wasn't surprised to discover that the system once again had components needing to be repaired. The
dism /Online /Cleanup-image /ScanHealth
Not the first time Windows has had this sort of trouble! It has become
a regular occurrence the past few years.
