| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 40 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 18:55:27 |
| Calls: | 291 |
| Files: | 910 |
| Messages: | 76,609 |
| Posted today: | 1 |
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
We all have reasons to switch to Linux. When you're window shopping as >>>> most of us are when it comes to the operating system, it's hard to find >>>> the motivation to stick to it when we encounter the first few bugs. In >>>> your case, it was how slow 11 was making your new hardware feel; for me, >>>> it was the knowledge that the corporations involved had no interest in >>>> fixing a three-year-old bug that made using the operating system
intolerable.
Win11 23H2 was overweight, on a machine that was ideal to upgrade to
Win11 21H2. That is just ridiculous. Two years. Is that an
eternity, or something? I like Microsoft in the abstract, I think
they're innovators, I think they do some useful things. But that is
irrelevant to my enjoyment of my machine. Win11 outgrew it in *no
time*.
In exchange for manufacturers bundling Windows with every one of their >>machines, Microsoft agrees to bloat the operating system artificially to >>encourage users to upgrade more frequently.
It's long been a theory but I would love to someone to tell me that it
is far-fetched.
Boom.
Joel wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
We all have reasons to switch to Linux. When you're window shopping as >>>>> most of us are when it comes to the operating system, it's hard to find >>>>> the motivation to stick to it when we encounter the first few bugs. In >>>>> your case, it was how slow 11 was making your new hardware feel; for me, >>>>> it was the knowledge that the corporations involved had no interest in >>>>> fixing a three-year-old bug that made using the operating system
intolerable.
Win11 23H2 was overweight, on a machine that was ideal to upgrade to
Win11 21H2. That is just ridiculous. Two years. Is that an
eternity, or something? I like Microsoft in the abstract, I think
they're innovators, I think they do some useful things. But that is
irrelevant to my enjoyment of my machine. Win11 outgrew it in *no
time*.
In exchange for manufacturers bundling Windows with every one of their
machines, Microsoft agrees to bloat the operating system artificially to >>> encourage users to upgrade more frequently.
It's long been a theory but I would love to someone to tell me that it
is far-fetched.
Boom.
That's the origin of the term "Wintel" IIRC.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Yet another >><https://www.zdnet.com/article/new-windows-11-24h2-bug-could-block- future-security-updates-see-whos-affected/>
in the ongoing stream of bugs from Microsoft resulting from the Windows >>update process itself. This one breaks the ability to receive further >>security updates. So once you get it, how do you get an update to fix
it? Particularly when there have already been updates that kept
introducing their own new bugs?
Just incompetent, isn't it? Why do they keep making the same mistakes,
again and again, releasing beta software as if it's ready for prime
time. In 2019 it was what caused me to switch to Linux for the first
lengthy time (I'd installed it a few times but never used it long-term).
On 2025-01-01 07:50, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Joel wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
We all have reasons to switch to Linux. When you're window shopping as >>>>>> most of us are when it comes to the operating system, it's hard to find >>>>>> the motivation to stick to it when we encounter the first few bugs. In >>>>>> your case, it was how slow 11 was making your new hardware feel; for me, >>>>>> it was the knowledge that the corporations involved had no interest in >>>>>> fixing a three-year-old bug that made using the operating system
intolerable.
Win11 23H2 was overweight, on a machine that was ideal to upgrade to >>>>> Win11 21H2. That is just ridiculous. Two years. Is that an
eternity, or something? I like Microsoft in the abstract, I think
they're innovators, I think they do some useful things. But that is >>>>> irrelevant to my enjoyment of my machine. Win11 outgrew it in *no
time*.
In exchange for manufacturers bundling Windows with every one of their >>>> machines, Microsoft agrees to bloat the operating system artificially to >>>> encourage users to upgrade more frequently.
It's long been a theory but I would love to someone to tell me that it >>>> is far-fetched.
Boom.
That's the origin of the term "Wintel" IIRC.
Windows = Win
Intel = tel
That's the origin. It has nothing to do with bloat.
Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2025-01-01 07:50, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Joel wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
We all have reasons to switch to Linux. When you're window shopping as >>>>>>> most of us are when it comes to the operating system, it's hard to find >>>>>>> the motivation to stick to it when we encounter the first few bugs. In >>>>>>> your case, it was how slow 11 was making your new hardware feel; for me,
it was the knowledge that the corporations involved had no interest in >>>>>>> fixing a three-year-old bug that made using the operating system >>>>>>> intolerable.
Win11 23H2 was overweight, on a machine that was ideal to upgrade to >>>>>> Win11 21H2. That is just ridiculous. Two years. Is that an
eternity, or something? I like Microsoft in the abstract, I think >>>>>> they're innovators, I think they do some useful things. But that is >>>>>> irrelevant to my enjoyment of my machine. Win11 outgrew it in *no >>>>>> time*.
In exchange for manufacturers bundling Windows with every one of their >>>>> machines, Microsoft agrees to bloat the operating system artificially to >>>>> encourage users to upgrade more frequently.
It's long been a theory but I would love to someone to tell me that it >>>>> is far-fetched.
Boom.
That's the origin of the term "Wintel" IIRC.
Windows = Win
Intel = tel
That's the origin. It has nothing to do with bloat.
It has to do with the symbiotic relationship of the two companies, and yes, bloat did have something to do with it. IMHO.
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 15:19:23 -0500, Joel wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:future-security-updates-see-whos-affected/>
Yet another
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/new-windows-11-24h2-bug-could-block-
in the ongoing stream of bugs from Microsoft resulting from the Windows
update process itself. This one breaks the ability to receive further
security updates. So once you get it, how do you get an update to fix
it? Particularly when there have already been updates that kept
introducing their own new bugs?
Just incompetent, isn't it? Why do they keep making the same mistakes,
again and again, releasing beta software as if it's ready for prime
time. In 2019 it was what caused me to switch to Linux for the first
lengthy time (I'd installed it a few times but never used it long-term).
Beta software is beta software. An OS is an OS.
That's the origin of the term "Wintel" IIRC.
Windows = Win
Intel = tel
That's the origin. It has nothing to do with bloat.
It has to do with the symbiotic relationship of the two companies, and yes, >bloat did have something to do with it. IMHO.
Yet another <https://www.zdnet.com/article/new-windows-11-24h2-bug-could-block-future-security-updates-see-whos-affected/>
in the ongoing stream of bugs from Microsoft resulting from the
Windows update process itself. This one breaks the ability to receive
further security updates. So once you get it, how do you get an update
to fix it? Particularly when there have already been updates that kept introducing their own new bugs?
Beta software is beta software. An OS is an OS.
On Wed, 01 Jan 2025 14:45:44 GMT, Gregg Fowler wrote:
Beta software is beta software. An OS is an OS.
And Microsoft is the only one shipping a beta-quality OS and expecting its users to rely on that for mission-critical production work.
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
User-Agent: tin/1.6.2-20030910 ("Pabbay") (UNIX) (CYGWIN_NT-10.0-WOW/2.8.0(0.309/5/3) (i686)) Hamster/2.0.2.2
Fascinating that you prefer using that for Usenet, I'm the reverse,
using Forte Agent under Wine, lol.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2025 14:45:44 GMT, Gregg Fowler wrote:
Beta software is beta software. An OS is an OS.
And Microsoft is the only one shipping a beta-quality OS and expecting its >> users to rely on that for mission-critical production work.
Don't be silly! Any such 'users' are total idiots. The consumer
versions of Windows are totally unfit for "mission-critical production >work". And even business/enterprise versions need competent IT staff and >procedures to properly manage such systems.
FYI, I've been supporting Five Nines systems (obviously not Windows
ones), so remarks like yours tend to push my button.
That's a good point - the business Winblows users will not be using
24H2, in the first place, M$ is testing it in the wild with early-
adopter types, masochists one might surmise.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
And Microsoft is the only one shipping a beta-quality OS and expecting
its users to rely on that for mission-critical production work.
Any such 'users' are total idiots.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2025 14:45:44 GMT, Gregg Fowler wrote:
Beta software is beta software. An OS is an OS.
And Microsoft is the only one shipping a beta-quality OS and expecting its >> users to rely on that for mission-critical production work.
Yeah, weird, huh? It's like they can't make it right from the
beginning, they need people to put up with bugs to test it in the
wild, how is their internal testing so poor? Being on the cutting
edge with M$ is just spinning one's wheels. Linux is the refuge.
I won't deny the symbiotic relationship between the two, but I don't
believe that it was any kind of conspiracy behind it. Intel was making
the x86 chips, and IBM and Microsoft's software ran on that platform.
While AMD worked for Intel to produce x86 chips and even after they no
longer worked together, Microsoft ran just as well on AMD's x86 chips.
People have always criticized the x86 platform for not being as good a
the RISC variants, but it doesn't mean that there wasn't a need for x86.
Yeah, weird, huh? It's like they can't make it right from the
beginning, they need people to put up with bugs to test it in the wild,
how is their internal testing so poor? Being on the cutting edge with
M$ is just spinning one's wheels. Linux is the refuge.
That's a good point - the business Winblows users will not be using
24H2, in the first place, M$ is testing it in the wild with early-
adopter types, masochists one might surmise.
As to Cygwin, for my personal use, Windows programs and all GNU tools
is the best combination, ever since early 2003. WSL came way too late
for me considering to switch to it.
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
On 2025-01-01 14:34, Joel wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2025 14:45:44 GMT, Gregg Fowler wrote:
Beta software is beta software. An OS is an OS.
And Microsoft is the only one shipping a beta-quality OS and expecting its >>>> users to rely on that for mission-critical production work.
Yeah, weird, huh? It's like they can't make it right from the
beginning, they need people to put up with bugs to test it in the
wild, how is their internal testing so poor? Being on the cutting
edge with M$ is just spinning one's wheels. Linux is the refuge.
If Windows 11 didn't routinely become unbootable from an update that
Microsoft didn't test under certain conditions, I'd disagree with Joel
here. However, it seems that it happens with every one of their
cumulative updates.
Seemingly, they aren't really testing the code, much less testing
deployment, because the kinds of bugs just don't reflect an odd incompatibility but rather that specific PC systems are treated in an erroneous manner, M$ can't manage its bloated OS, I guess. They do a passable job on the whole, though, but certain customers are plagued
by the bugs.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 10:06:35 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
I won't deny the symbiotic relationship between the two, but I don't
believe that it was any kind of conspiracy behind it. Intel was making
the x86 chips, and IBM and Microsoft's software ran on that platform.
While AMD worked for Intel to produce x86 chips and even after they no
longer worked together, Microsoft ran just as well on AMD's x86 chips.
People have always criticized the x86 platform for not being as good a
the RISC variants, but it doesn't mean that there wasn't a need for x86.
I agree. IBM chose the 8088 in part because they had experience with the
8085 on the System/23. The rest is history. Intel was late to the mobile party which didn't do MS any favors. An example is the Atom processors.
Intel made a lot more money on Core processors and lost interest in the
Atom. That killed the cheap Surface line a Surface 3. The Pro series used Core processors and had a higher price.
MS muddied the waters with the ARM powered Surface 1 and 2 and RT that
left a bad taste.
At the moment Intel seems to be imploding as MS sails on.
On Wed, 01 Jan 2025 14:34:06 -0500, Joel wrote:
Yeah, weird, huh? It's like they can't make it right from the
beginning, they need people to put up with bugs to test it in the wild,
how is their internal testing so poor? Being on the cutting edge with
M$ is just spinning one's wheels. Linux is the refuge.
I really hate defending Microsoft but when they do a release how are they supposed to test every possible combination of hardware and software?
Linux has gotten better but it was problematic on laptops and there were/
are lists of Linux friendly laptops. The Windows world assumes it's going
to work.
Apple has a much easier task since they know exactly what the software is going to run on.
On 1 Jan 2025 21:14:06 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
As to Cygwin, for my personal use, Windows programs and all GNU tools
is the best combination, ever since early 2003. WSL came way too late
for me considering to switch to it.
I don't think it has been maintained in a while but there was a native Windows build of Unix utilities that didn't depend on Cygwin or MSYS2. I
get tired of typing ls and finding nothing there.
I haven't used Cygwin recently. Speaking of way too late I started with
DJGPP which ported gcc to Windows. There were two threads growing out of that. Corrina Vinschen and others took the Cygwin branch which more to
create a Unix environment of Windows while Colin Peters, and later Mumit
Khan took the mingw32 branch to use gcc to build native Windows programs
that became MSYS2 over the years. It was an interesting era.
At work we used the MKS NutCracker tools to port what were originally AIX programs to Windows. While Cygwin would have probably worked it would have gotten into the whole GPL limitations on commercial software morass.
On 1 Jan 2025 20:19:01 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
And Microsoft is the only one shipping a beta-quality OS and expecting
its users to rely on that for mission-critical production work.
Any such 'users' are total idiots.
You said it, I didn’t ...
On 2025-01-01 14:34, Joel wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2025 14:45:44 GMT, Gregg Fowler wrote:
Beta software is beta software. An OS is an OS.
And Microsoft is the only one shipping a beta-quality OS and expecting its >>> users to rely on that for mission-critical production work.
Yeah, weird, huh? It's like they can't make it right from the
beginning, they need people to put up with bugs to test it in the
wild, how is their internal testing so poor? Being on the cutting
edge with M$ is just spinning one's wheels. Linux is the refuge.
If Windows 11 didn't routinely become unbootable from an update that Microsoft didn't test under certain conditions, I'd disagree with Joel here. However, it seems that it happens with every one of their cumulative updates.
On 2025-01-01 18:38, rbowman wrote:computer crash and let the corporation fix the issue before she installs them.
On Wed, 01 Jan 2025 14:34:06 -0500, Joel wrote:
Yeah, weird, huh? It's like they can't make it right from the
beginning, they need people to put up with bugs to test it in the wild,
how is their internal testing so poor? Being on the cutting edge with
M$ is just spinning one's wheels. Linux is the refuge.
I really hate defending Microsoft but when they do a release how are they
supposed to test every possible combination of hardware and software?
No, but they should give people the option to take a wait and see approach rather than force updates on everyone who didn't pay for a Pro license. Some people want every update the moment it's available; others like my wife want to watch the other
Linux has gotten better but it was problematic on laptops and there were/
are lists of Linux friendly laptops. The Windows world assumes it's going
to work.
Apple has a much easier task since they know exactly what the software is
going to run on.
I have yet to see an Apple update screw anything up but it is definitely easier for them since there aren't as many MacOS configurations to consider.
People here have also achieved that (no updates) by breaking stuff :-)
I bet the US military version, doesn't have the "location tracker"
turned on :-)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
On 2025-01-01 18:30, Joel wrote:
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
On 2025-01-01 14:34, Joel wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2025 14:45:44 GMT, Gregg Fowler wrote:
Beta software is beta software. An OS is an OS.
And Microsoft is the only one shipping a beta-quality OS and expecting its
users to rely on that for mission-critical production work.
Yeah, weird, huh? It's like they can't make it right from the
beginning, they need people to put up with bugs to test it in the
wild, how is their internal testing so poor? Being on the cutting
edge with M$ is just spinning one's wheels. Linux is the refuge.
If Windows 11 didn't routinely become unbootable from an update that
Microsoft didn't test under certain conditions, I'd disagree with Joel >>>> here. However, it seems that it happens with every one of their
cumulative updates.
Seemingly, they aren't really testing the code, much less testing
deployment, because the kinds of bugs just don't reflect an odd
incompatibility but rather that specific PC systems are treated in an
erroneous manner, M$ can't manage its bloated OS, I guess. They do a
passable job on the whole, though, but certain customers are plagued
by the bugs.
The bug that finally caused me to stop bothering with them isn't
Microsoft's fault, but I do fault them for continuing to demand TPM when
the requirement was causing stuttering with anyone who owned an AMD
processor. Like I said, if you were aware of what was causing the
problem and your motherboard allowed you to install a hardware TPM, you
were clear as long as you didn't mind paying to buy one, assuming that a
BIOS update wasn't available. However, most people could _at best_
disable it and lose the ability to install 11. If they knew about Rufus,
they could try to circumvent the problem and hope that Microsoft didn't
screw them over in an update. For laptop owners though, it's an absolute
mess that the manufacturers have no interest in fixing. There is no
excuse for any manufacturer to be aware of such an issue for years and
not do a thing about it. Additionally, there is no excuse for Microsoft
to acknowledge this reality and not at least allow AMD users to use 11
without TPM if not disable the hwrng causing the issue. Anyways, I'm
tired of being treated like I don't matter because they already got my
money.
I think Microsoft genuinely feels that their barely supporting
hardware, in any real sense, is the natural way, that if people are
too stupid or stubborn to try Linux on a somewhat older system, they
get what they deserve, bloat that overloads their gear. It's really
amazing, how attached people are to Winblows software, and how
intimidated they are by anything Linux (I mean they can try Mint,
FFS), M$ and the OEMs just suck their money year after year.
At least the manufacturer replaced my motherboard when I intentionally
fucked it up on the day before my warranty ended. It was becoming clear
that the fingerprint reader wasn't working because the technician
shorted the motherboard during the first repair when they replaced my
battery, so I wanted a replacement and I wouldn't get it unless I killed
it.
You mean that you made an already malfunctioning board completely
dead, because you didn't want the fingerprint reader alone repaired,
but a replacement of the board? I guess I can't fault you, for that,
to me the idea of a warranty claim is the ultimate in drudgery, which
is why I purchased the wireless charger for my phone when its USB-C
stopped working under warranty, no fucking way am I playing that game
where they issue me a replacement and refurbish and profit from my
original one, fuck them, I'd rather give Amazon the few bucks for an alternative charging mechanism.
On Wed, 1/1/2025 7:28 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:computer crash and let the corporation fix the issue before she installs them. >>
On 2025-01-01 18:38, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2025 14:34:06 -0500, Joel wrote:
Yeah, weird, huh? It's like they can't make it right from the
beginning, they need people to put up with bugs to test it in the wild, >>>> how is their internal testing so poor? Being on the cutting edge with >>>> M$ is just spinning one's wheels. Linux is the refuge.
I really hate defending Microsoft but when they do a release how are they >>> supposed to test every possible combination of hardware and software?
No, but they should give people the option to take a wait and see approach rather than force updates on everyone who didn't pay for a Pro license. Some people want every update the moment it's available; others like my wife want to watch the other
Linux has gotten better but it was problematic on laptops and there were/ >>> are lists of Linux friendly laptops. The Windows world assumes it's going >>> to work.
Apple has a much easier task since they know exactly what the software is >>> going to run on.
I have yet to see an Apple update screw anything up but it is definitely easier for them since there aren't as many MacOS configurations to consider.
There is a button in Windows Update, to delay the installation of patches.
"Pause Updates" Pull-down menu == "Up to 5 weeks (35 days)"
This should be sufficient, you can resume updates when your desktop is
free and a block of time is available for the update to happen.
The purpose of this, is to control the "arbitrariness" of updating.
It does not stop updating altogether. People here have also achieved
that (no updates) by breaking stuff :-) The "Update Orchestrator"
exists, to try to keep updates flowing, by noticing damage to
the update system.
Windows used to have a control variable between 0..4, and one of the
values made it so updates only showed up if you clicked the button
to check for updates. That made the control of it, perfectly manual,
and if you wanted to stop updating for three years, you could. The
design intent of the current scheme, is to not do it like that,
and (long term average) always be receiving updates.
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 1/1/2025 6:17 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
If Windows 11 didn't routinely become unbootable from an update that
Microsoft didn't test under certain conditions, I'd disagree with Joel here.
However, it seems that it happens with every one of their cumulative updates.
What does this "unbootable" mean exactly ?
Do you have just Windows on a disk by itself, and after
every Cumulative, the OS does not boot ? If it does not
boot, does it try three times until concluding the
repair procedures did not work ? And if the OS did not boot,
I presume at some point it did not boot and you were stuck.
Did you have a multiboot, GRUB was in control of the menu,
GRUB would no longer start (but the Windows Boot Manager entry
in the popup boot did work?). Generally, the only time Windows
breaks GRUB, is when adding a C: to the disk via Clean Install.
*******
Did you "Clean Install" to resume operation ? Every time ?
If multi-booting, this would require the (linux) Boot Repair CD, for
easiest GRUB repair. I've used that a few times, and for simple
setups, it can work.
The thing I have trouble with, is seeming damage to the Microsoft
folder in UEFI partition. I don't know of a simple way to 're-pave"
the files in there, like while running from a DVD. It may be
possible to restore /EFI/Microsoft from a backup (Macrium could
put the whole partition back), but for people without a backup,
I don't know of a solution that is direct and to the point.
There have been a couple too many media reports, about Winblows
fucking up to that degree. And several more about severe bugs on
certain OS install scenarios, yada yada. (And we're pretending not to remember the various security and Internet holes there were, beginning
with NT 4, including 2000 and XP. Vista of course was probably pretty
great in that regard, though, oddly enough, as its overall code was a
mess.)
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 19:08:22 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,comp.os.linux.advocacy
OS WAR! <G>
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:59:53 -0500, Paul wrote:
People here have also achieved that (no updates) by breaking stuff :-)
Microsoft itself has now come up with an update that does this, too--kills the ability to receive further updates. As I mentioned in the posting that started this thread.
On 1 Jan 2025 20:19:01 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
And Microsoft is the only one shipping a beta-quality OS and expecting
its users to rely on that for mission-critical production work.
Any such 'users' are total idiots.
You said it, I didn?t ...
On 2025-01-01 18:38, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jan 2025 14:34:06 -0500, Joel wrote:
Yeah, weird, huh? It's like they can't make it right from the
beginning, they need people to put up with bugs to test it in the wild,
how is their internal testing so poor? Being on the cutting edge with
M$ is just spinning one's wheels. Linux is the refuge.
I really hate defending Microsoft but when they do a release how are they supposed to test every possible combination of hardware and software?
No, but they should give people the option to take a wait and see
approach rather than force updates on everyone who didn't pay for a Pro license. Some people want every update the moment it's available; others
like my wife want to watch the other computer crash and let the
corporation fix the issue before she installs them.
The bug that finally caused me to stop bothering with them isn't
Microsoft's fault, but I do fault them for continuing to demand TPM when
the requirement was causing stuttering with anyone who owned an AMD processor. [...]
Yeah, I hear you about Intel. I wasn't aware of how bad it was doing
until I watched a video on YouTube a while ago where the producer showed
that the company had neglected most categories and had their crown
stolen from them. They're not in consoles, nobody wants them for mobile computing and gamers seem to prefer AMD.
Is that actually available to Home users too? I know that people using
Pro can do so but I'm not so sure with the default version.
I still use at least one gnuwin32 regularly. That's gawk.exe .
I have other things I can run, like bash shell. The difference between gnuwin32 gawk.exe and bash shell gawk, is the line endings.
Gnuwin32 uses native Windows line termination, while bash shell uses
Linux line termination, and a tiny mod must be made to your script, if
moving it.
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
[...]
The bug that finally caused me to stop bothering with them isn't
Microsoft's fault, but I do fault them for continuing to demand TPM when
the requirement was causing stuttering with anyone who owned an AMD
processor. [...]
I didn't follow this 'stuttering' problem before, but as I have an AMD processor and - like you - in a laptop [1], can you tell me how/where I
would experience said stuttering? So far everything seems to be running
fine.
[...]
[1] HP Pavilion 15-eh2560nd laptop, AMD Ryzen 5 5625U 2.3Ghz 6 Cores,
Windows 11 24H2.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:55:47 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
Is that actually available to Home users too? I know that people using
Pro can do so but I'm not so sure with the default version.
I don't have access to anything with the Home edition but I believe there
is a setting where it will not automatically update if you say it's on a metered connection.
How many people have Home? Even the cheap Beelink mini came with Pro as
did the Acer Swift 3 laptop.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:59:53 -0500, Paul wrote:
People here have also achieved that (no updates) by breaking stuff
:-)
Microsoft itself has now come up with an update that does this,
too--kills the ability to receive further updates. As I mentioned in
the posting that started this thread.
Sigh! It's *not* "an update [which] kills the ability to receive
further updates". It's a corner case ...
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On 1 Jan 2025 20:19:01 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
And Microsoft is the only one shipping a beta-quality OS and
expecting its users to rely on that for mission-critical production
work.
Any such 'users' are total idiots.
You said it, I didn?t ...
Nope, I didn't. You 'conveniently', silently, stripped the rest of the paragraph ...
OTOH, I doubt that Joe Average User will realize/see that this option
is there and will realize what effect he can achieve with it.
It's possible that a lot of models come with Pro. Nevertheless, Home is
still shipped on a lot of the computers sold. This laptop came with Home
but I upgraded it using my Pro license.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 15:04:58 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
It's possible that a lot of models come with Pro. Nevertheless, Home is
still shipped on a lot of the computers sold. This laptop came with Home
but I upgraded it using my Pro license.
I never paid attention buy scrolling down Amazon's laptop selection it
looks like $400 is the dividing line although there are flyers on both
sides. Some showed 'Windows 11 S' which I didn't know about. I suppose if
you were buying a laptop for your grandmother restricting it to only run Microsoft Store apps might be good, knowing Granny won't be able to figure out how to turn S off. Learn something new every day.
On 2 Jan 2025 18:50:18 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
OTOH, I doubt that Joe Average User will realize/see that this option
is there and will realize what effect he can achieve with it.
Further confirming the point I was making with the subject of this thread.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 15:04:58 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
It's possible that a lot of models come with Pro. Nevertheless, Home is
still shipped on a lot of the computers sold. This laptop came with Home
but I upgraded it using my Pro license.
I never paid attention buy scrolling down Amazon's laptop selection it
looks like $400 is the dividing line although there are flyers on both
sides. Some showed 'Windows 11 S' which I didn't know about. I suppose if
you were buying a laptop for your grandmother restricting it to only run Microsoft Store apps might be good, knowing Granny won't be able to figure out how to turn S off. Learn something new every day.
A laptop that limits a Windows user to applications in the Windows Store
is limiting that user to limited amount of very limited software.
On 2 Jan 2025 18:21:11 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:59:53 -0500, Paul wrote:
People here have also achieved that (no updates) by breaking stuff
:-)
Microsoft itself has now come up with an update that does this,
too--kills the ability to receive further updates. As I mentioned in
the posting that started this thread.
Sigh! It's *not* "an update [which] kills the ability to receive
further updates". It's a corner case ...
Which only started happening after a particular update.
On 2 Jan 2025 18:50:18 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
OTOH, I doubt that Joe Average User will realize/see that this option
is there and will realize what effect he can achieve with it.
Further confirming the point I was making with the subject of this thread.
"s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 19:08:22 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,comp.os.linux.advocacy
OS WAR! <G>
I frequently talk to Copilot in a Linux Web app about how sleek Linux
is compared to Winblows, and it agrees with me. M$ is laughing at the
people using their products on aging hardware.
On Thu, 1/2/2025 4:57 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On 2 Jan 2025 18:50:18 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
OTOH, I doubt that Joe Average User will realize/see that this option
is there and will realize what effect he can achieve with it.
Further confirming the point I was making with the subject of this thread.
Thirty five days is sufficient to pause activity
until you have a clear maintenance window. One of the
purposes of this, is a sales person can do a PowerPoint
presentation to a client, without Windows Update interfering
with the session.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:55:47 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
Is that actually available to Home users too? I know that people using
Pro can do so but I'm not so sure with the default version.
I don't have access to anything with the Home edition but I believe there
is a setting where it will not automatically update if you say it's on a metered connection.
How many people have Home? Even the cheap Beelink mini came with Pro as
did the Acer Swift 3 laptop.
AFAIK, mostly complete systems, directed at the consumer market, for
example our HP Pavilion laptops. Higher priced HP laptops, especially
the business ones, come with Pro.
FWIW, I've yet to miss any functionality in Home.
On 2025-01-02 20:58, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 15:04:58 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
It's possible that a lot of models come with Pro. Nevertheless, Home is
still shipped on a lot of the computers sold. This laptop came with Home >>> but I upgraded it using my Pro license.
I never paid attention buy scrolling down Amazon's laptop selection it
looks like $400 is the dividing line although there are flyers on both
sides. Some showed 'Windows 11 S' which I didn't know about. I suppose if
you were buying a laptop for your grandmother restricting it to only run
Microsoft Store apps might be good, knowing Granny won't be able to figure >> out how to turn S off. Learn something new every day.
A laptop that limits a Windows user to applications in the Windows Store
is limiting that user to limited amount of very limited software.
Frank Slootweg wrote:
AFAIK, mostly complete systems, directed at the consumer market, for
example our HP Pavilion laptops. Higher priced HP laptops, especially
the business ones, come with Pro.
FWIW, I've yet to miss any functionality in Home.
With Pro, you're not forced to get the Microsoft account.
On 2025-01-02 14:00, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
[...]
The bug that finally caused me to stop bothering with them isn't
Microsoft's fault, but I do fault them for continuing to demand TPM when >> the requirement was causing stuttering with anyone who owned an AMD
processor. [...]
I didn't follow this 'stuttering' problem before, but as I have an AMD processor and - like you - in a laptop [1], can you tell me how/where I would experience said stuttering? So far everything seems to be running fine.
[...]
[1] HP Pavilion 15-eh2560nd laptop, AMD Ryzen 5 5625U 2.3Ghz 6 Cores, Windows 11 24H2.
An example:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYnRL-x6DVI>
An acknowledgement from AMD:
<https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-acknowledges-ftpm-stuttering-issues-promises-a-bios-fix-in-may>
I doubt that you never experienced it. However, you might have had it
fixed if you use a desktop and the manufacturer of your motherboard
issued an update for the problem.
My Linux container "ext4.vhdx" is currently 8GB in size.
On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 07:16:32 -0500, Paul wrote:
My Linux container "ext4.vhdx" is currently 8GB in size.
I haven't fired up a WSL instance in a while but iirc the reported size seemed to be much larger than what was being used. It worked so I never
dug into it.
Yes, the 'holes'/tricks have changed over time, but there still are
several.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On 2 Jan 2025 18:21:11 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:59:53 -0500, Paul wrote:
People here have also achieved that (no updates) by breaking stuff
:-)
Microsoft itself has now come up with an update that does this,
too--kills the ability to receive further updates. As I mentioned in
the posting that started this thread.
Sigh! It's *not* "an update [which] kills the ability to receive
further updates". It's a corner case ...
Which only started happening after a particular update.
... the risk of getting the problem existed only for a very short time
and only in very uncommon scenarios.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
You mean, the part that agreed with what I said?
Nope it didn't.
On 3 Jan 2025 13:47:50 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Yes, the 'holes'/tricks have changed over time, but there still are
several.
Naturally your typical Dimdows user has plenty of time and mental capacity
to spare to keep up with all of this, don’t they ...
