So, what ever is doing in NZ seems to be catching...

Here in Elmira we're getting upgraded to smart metering by the utility (NYSEG) and the best they could do was a post card reading "in the next few weeks...it'll only take a moment...power will be interrupted..."

So, just a heads up there may be some sporadic disruptions from this side.

N2QFD//Mal

N2QFD{Queen City BBS}:// "Does this need to be said? Does this need to be said by me? Does this need to be said by me right now?" - Craig Ferguson

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Queen City BBS (21:1/154)

n2qfd wrote to All <=-

Here in Elmira we're getting upgraded to smart metering by the
utility (NYSEG) and the best they could do was a post card reading "in
the next few weeks...it'll only take a moment...power will be interrupted..."

So, just a heads up there may be some sporadic disruptions from this side.

This is why they make UPS's.



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This is why they make UPS's.

yep, this is a hobby, not a business.

N2QFD{Queen City BBS}:// "Does this need to be said? Does this need to be said by me? Does this need to be said by me right now?" - Craig Ferguson

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Queen City BBS (21:1/154)

n2qfd wrote to Gamgee <=-

This is why they make UPS's.

yep, this is a hobby, not a business.

Well, it's not so much that. You could easily prevent the issue by
simply having the equipment on a UPS. Because it's a "hobby" makes it
not important enough for a $75 UPS?

Even more important than "uptime" is the prevention of damage to the equipment, which may be even more important to a hobbyist than a
business.

Good luck with it.



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Well, it's not so much that. You could easily prevent the issue by simply having the equipment on a UPS. Because it's a "hobby" makes it not important enough for a $75 UPS?

Really? Of course it isn't important enough for a UPS. Good lord man, people priorities should not land with the BBS being #1. Mine also doesn't sit on a UPS. If it goes down.. its down.. this isn't an ISP with thousands of clients PAYING for service, its a toy. At some point I may get a UPS but I'm not going to prioritize one and neither should the other guy..


--- TheNerd -/- Sysop: NerdRage BBS -/- telnet: nerdragebbs.ddns.net

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TheNerd wrote to Gamgee <=-

Well, it's not so much that. You could easily prevent the issue by
simply having the equipment on a UPS. Because it's a "hobby" makes it
not important enough for a $75 UPS?

Really? Of course it isn't important enough for a UPS. Good lord
man, people priorities should not land with the BBS being #1.

Who said anything about it being a #1 priority? Those are your words.

It's important enough to me simply to prevent hardware damage or
software corruption due to a power outage. It that isn't important to
you, that's fine. Not sure why you're so offended.

Mine also doesn't sit on a UPS. If it goes down.. its down..
this isn't an ISP with thousands of clients PAYING for service, its a
toy.

Yours may be a toy. Some BBS operators (like me), who are
hubs/coordinators for FTN message networks, *DO* have other systems
relying on a stable uplink. Are they PAYING? No. Can/should they have
an expectation of reliability upstream? Yes.

At some point I may get a UPS but I'm not going to prioritize
one and neither should the other guy..

There's that "prioritize" thing again, which nobody but you has said
anything about. Just try to understand that not everybody uses this
hobby the exact same way that you might. Putting a UPS on a computer
system, whether it's a BBS or just another home computer, is not some "extreme" kind of thing. It's normal, to most folks.



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Really? Of course it isn't important enough for a UPS. Good lord man, people priorities should not land with the BBS being #1. Mine also doesn't sit on a UPS. If it goes down.. its down.. this isn't an ISP with thousands of clients PAYING for service, its a toy. At some point
I may get a UPS but I'm not going to prioritize one and neither should
the other guy..

yeah, this is exactly where I'm coming from. My BBS has near zero traffic and it's really the hardware that has the value here. I'm not going to say not to spend money in the things you love doing. I've got more than a few duckets tied up in ham radio gear. Still, Occam's razor the simple answer is often the right one. I don't want another bit of kit to maintain on top of the blinking paperweight that is my BBS. I don't have elaborate electrical suppression for my radio gear, I just never leave my antenna hooked up but rather grounded when not in use and even the power supply transformer unplugged. I cover my "rig" and my key with cloths for dust. I mean my morse code key is a few hundred dollars worth of equipment alone and I have a few of them! So, the well spent part of money well spent is as often the case in the eye of the beholder.


I appreciate the comments, I really do as much as I appreciate the fsx cadre of BBS operators here. As it was on Waldon Pond a long time ago, "Simplify Simplify" has been working well enough for now and perhaps I'll look into that standby power some day.

Best 73 as we say on the radio ..

N2QFD{Queen City BBS}:// "Does this need to be said? Does this need to be said by me? Does this need to be said by me right now?" - Craig Ferguson

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Queen City BBS (21:1/154)

On 08 Aug 2024 at 11:57a, Gamgee pondered and said...

It's important enough to me simply to prevent hardware damage or
software corruption due to a power outage. It that isn't important to you, that's fine. Not sure why you're so offended.

UPSes are not perfect; they fail. Sometimes in pretty spectacular
fashion. People I've worked with who had previously done IT support
in corporate environments recommended against using them because, at
scale, the failure rate was high enough and the risk of damage with a
failed UPS greater than without one at all, that in net they were a
negative. Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease; YMMV.

Mine also doesn't sit on a UPS. If it goes down.. its down..
this isn't an ISP with thousands of clients PAYING for service, its a toy.

Yours may be a toy.

Let's be honest, here: they're all toys. Failure to recognize that,
and the, er, "passion" that assumed is one of the big reasons BBSes
tanked once the Internet became generally available. No one liked
dealing with the overly inflated senses of self-importance from BBS
people who didn't understand that, yes, it's a hobby.

Some BBS operators (like me), who are
hubs/coordinators for FTN message networks, *DO* have other systems relying on a stable uplink.

"Relying" is probably a bit of an exaggeration in this day and age.

Are they PAYING? No. Can/should they have
an expectation of reliability upstream? Yes.

Probably the best way to get reliability for hobby operators is to
move the infrastructure onto a VPS in the cloud, basically eliminating
hardware failure from the risk matrix.

Look, it's fine to recommend that someone use a UPS. But doubling
down when someone tells you they don't need it is a bit much, na?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
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Re: Re: Queen City BBS Power Issues
By: TheNerd to Gamgee on Thu Aug 08 2024 11:55 am

Well, it's not so much that. You could easily prevent the issue by
simply having the equipment on a UPS. Because it's a "hobby" makes it
not important enough for a $75 UPS?

Really? Of course it isn't important enough for a UPS. Good lord man, people priorities should not land with the BBS being #1. Mine also doesn't sit on a UPS. If it goes down.. its down.. this isn't an ISP with thousands of clients PAYING for service, its a toy. At some point I may get a UPS but I'm not going to prioritize one and neither should the other guy..

IMO, it's not that it's not important enough for a UPS. Probably not, but also, I think a sudden loss of power could potentially cause damage to a computer. I know modern operating systems & filesystems are more resilient than older ones, so loss of data is probably less likely, and maybe PC hardware is more resilient than it used to be too.. I still feel like I want to protect my hardware though. Also I guess I don't mind spending the money on a UPS to keep my PC going so that it can shut down safely if the power goes off.

Also, in the summer months, I tend to draw more power than the winter, as I hvae a couple of air conditioners in my apartment that I run when the weather gets hot. While they're running, sometimes if something else happens to draw enough power, a circuit will break, causing a loss of power. That has happened multiple times recently, and I like that the UPS kept the PC running in the minute or so it took me to flip the breaker switch to get the power back on.

Nightfox
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Re: Re: Queen City BBS Power Issues
By: Gamgee to TheNerd on Thu Aug 08 2024 11:57 am

Really? Of course it isn't important enough for a UPS. Good lord man,
people priorities should not land with the BBS being #1.

Who said anything about it being a #1 priority? Those are your words.

Yep, it's not a #1 priority, but I feel like it's still good to have a UPS for my computer(s).

Also, I always thought a sudden power loss could cause some damage and/or data loss for a PC.

Nightfox
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Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-

Re: Re: Queen City BBS Power Issues
By: Gamgee to TheNerd on Thu Aug 08 2024 11:57 am

Really? Of course it isn't important enough for a UPS. Good lord man,
people priorities should not land with the BBS being #1.

Who said anything about it being a #1 priority? Those are your words.

Yep, it's not a #1 priority, but I feel like it's still good to have a
UPS for my computer(s).

Also, I always thought a sudden power loss could cause some damage
and/or data loss for a PC.

Yes. Exactly what I've been trying to tell these people. Somehow they
can't (or don't want to) understand. Oh well. Rookies and amateurs.
;-)



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Really? Of course it isn't important enough for a UPS. Good lord m people priorities should not land with the BBS being #1. Mine also doesn't sit on a UPS. If it goes down.. its down.. this isn't an I with thousands of clients PAYING for service, its a toy. At some poi I may get a UPS but I'm not going to prioritize one and neither shoul the other guy..

yeah, this is exactly where I'm coming from. My BBS has near zero traffi it's really the hardware that has the value here. I'm not going to say not spend money in the things you love doing. I've got more than a few duckets up in ham radio gear. Still, Occam's razor the simple answer is often the one. I don't want another bit of kit to maintain on top of the blinking paperweight that is my BBS. I don't have elaborate electrical suppression my radio gear, I just never leave my antenna hooked up but rather grounded not in use and even the power supply transformer unplugged. I cover my "ri and my key with cloths for dust.

My opinion is that, if one's computer has valuable data on it, it should be connected to a UPS, even if its owner is diligent with backups. Things (like your radio gear, for example) can be replaced; data is rarely so lucky.

I mean my morse code key is a few hundred dollars worth of equipment alone and I have a few of them!

Side question: how can a Morse code key be so expensive? o_o

-╠╣âlian

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Archaic Binary * bbs.archaicbinary.net (21:2/132)

IMO, it's not that it's not important enough for a UPS. Probably not, but also, I think a sudden loss of power could potentially cause damage to a

I bought a $65 UPS just to hook into the router and modem, I hooked the BBS computer to it as well. Wasn't so much for the BBS, but I got tired of the power flicking on/off for 2 seconds and reseting the router/modem, and having to wait to get TV back.

... It was supposed to be so easy.

--- Renegade v1.35α/DOS
* Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (21:1/144)

Yes. Exactly what I've been trying to tell these people. Somehow they can't (or don't want to) understand. Oh well. Rookies and amateurs.
;-)

Same people that don't do backups.

... Where might is master, justice is servant.

--- Renegade v1.35α/DOS
* Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (21:1/144)

Exodus wrote to Gamgee <=-

Yes. Exactly what I've been trying to tell these people. Somehow they can't (or don't want to) understand. Oh well. Rookies and amateurs.
;-)

Same people that don't do backups.

Yep, absolutely. Then, when they lose their (completely stock) BBS to hardware damage or software corruption, they disappear. <SHRUG>



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Re: Re: Queen City BBS Power Issues
By: Exodus to Gamgee on Fri Aug 09 2024 03:57 pm

Yes. Exactly what I've been trying to tell these people. Somehow they
can't (or don't want to) understand. Oh well. Rookies and amateurs. ;-)

Same people that don't do backups.

I do backups, but you never know when a power loss might happen, and it might also happen multiple times in a day. I doubt people are making backups that frequently.

Nightfox
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Nightfox wrote to Exodus <=-

Re: Re: Queen City BBS Power Issues
By: Exodus to Gamgee on Fri Aug 09 2024 03:57 pm

Yes. Exactly what I've been trying to tell these people. Somehow they
can't (or don't want to) understand. Oh well. Rookies and amateurs. ;-)

Same people that don't do backups.

I do backups, but you never know when a power loss might happen, and it might also happen multiple times in a day. I doubt people are making backups that frequently.

My system is backed up daily, in the wee hours of the morning, fully
automated by a script run in a cron job. Very simple and quick, just an 'rsync' mirroring (of only changed items) to two different locations
(one of them off-site).

So there's always a backup available that's less than a day old. Good
enough for a "hobby" BBS... ;-)




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Re: Re: Queen City BBS Power Issues
By: Gamgee to Nightfox on Sat Aug 10 2024 07:49 am

I do backups, but you never know when a power loss might happen, and it
might also happen multiple times in a day. I doubt people are making
backups that frequently.

My system is backed up daily, in the wee hours of the morning, fully automated by a script run in a cron job. Very simple and quick, just an 'rsync' mirroring (of only changed items) to two different locations (one of them off-site).

So there's always a backup available that's less than a day old. Good enough for a "hobby" BBS... ;-)

:) My backups aren't that frequent, but I feel it's good enough. ;)
I've had times where the power circuit would break due to pulling too much power (running 2 air conditioners and some other things), and recently there was a day when it happened multiple times that day. The number of times it was happening was worse than last year, but I have a better idea now of what I can be running at the same time without tripping the circuit. I'm really glad I have my computers plugged into UPS units, or I would have been having to keep turning them back on after losing power multiple times.. ;)

Also, Murphy's Law seems to apply when going on vacation. Multiple times, my BBS has gone down while I was on vacaction, so I couldn't fix it until I got back. One of those times, in particular, my neighborhood apparently lost power the same day I left on vacation, and I heard it was due to a chipmunk chewing a wire somewhere nearby.

Nightfox
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Same people that don't do backups.

Had to double-check that the Synology was backing up the BBS VM. Looks like once a week, so not bad.

... Phantom_Sysop

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Phantom BBS - bbs.phantombbs.info (21:1/161)

Had to double-check that the Synology was backing up the BBS VM. Looks like once a week, so not bad.

... Phantom_Sysop

As long as it's not "Phantom_Backup" old friend. :)

... Drive A: format failed. Restarting with drive C:.

--- Renegade v1.35α/DOS
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Side question: how can a Morse code key be so expensive? o_o

You're probably thinking of a Morse code key like Samuel Morse, the simple switch that works by an up and down motion.

Back in the late 1800's early 1900's if you were a telegraph operator as your trade you'd spend 12 hours shifts on send or receive and if send you'd spend 12 hours "pounding brass." They discovered carpal tunnel but it was called "glass arm" and people started to develop keys with a side to side motion. As time went on a company still in business today as Vibroplex came up with the semi-automatic key we call "bugs" for slang. Google a Vibroplex Bug and you'll see it's a bit of precision machining and assembly to make a working unit and that's part of the cost. It's also somewhat a supply and demand issue as there aren't that many needed. My gear is from the late 1970's as if it was taken care of it's a few hundred dollars/your lifetime as a user. These instruments sent the dit's at via a weight and spring mechanism and I like what I read about then in an old Air Force manual. "the bug wasn't invented to send code faster, but easier." So back to the telegraph office. These things were started in like 1904, and now you've got a bug! You can send 35 WPM fast without killing yourself or ending your career.

Now there's such a thing as a designer Morse code key as well, just precision parts and assembly and they are things of beauty as well. I however have expenses tied up in Vibroplex units that are works of art but also precision instruments in their own right.

N2QFD{Queen City BBS}:// "Does this need to be said? Does this need to be said by me? Does this need to be said by me right now?" - Craig Ferguson

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Queen City BBS (21:1/154)

BY: Gamgee (21:2/138)

|11G|09> |10Well, it's not so much that. You could easily prevent the issue by |07
|11G|09> |10simply having the equipment on a UPS. Because it's a "hobby" makes it |07
|11G|09> |10not important enough for a $75 UPS?|07
I once lost a 600 dollar PC due to a lightning storm.
Luckily I have a backup laptop now.


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