| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 30 |
| Nodes: | 6 (1 / 5) |
| Uptime: | 67:03:18 |
| Calls: | 414 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 1,015 |
| Messages: | 94,279 |
| Posted today: | 1 |
I am new to this FSX. How is everyone?
I am new to this FSX. How is everyone?
Meg
I am new to this FSX. How is everyone?
Meg
I am new to this FSX. How is everyone?
I am new to this FSX. How is everyone?
Meg
Meg
telnet://ricksbbs.synchro.net:23
http://ricksbbs.synchro.net:8080
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
* Origin: Rick's BBS - telnet://ricksbbs.synchro.net:23 (21:1/242)
Ready for the weekend. That's how I am!
I'm usually ready for the weekend as soon as I wake up on Monday. ;)
Nightfox wrote to Accession <=-
Re: Re: New to this
By: Accession to Nigel Reed on Wed Apr 16 2025 06:19 pm
I'm usually ready for the weekend as soon as I wake up on Monday. ;)
The first 5 days after the weekend are the hardest.
I'm usually ready for the weekend as soon as I wake up on Monday. ;)
Re: Re: New to this
By: Accession to Nigel Reed on Wed Apr 16 2025 18:19:41
I'm usually ready for the weekend as soon as I wake up on Monday. ;)
I give it until Tuesday at least. Monday gets the benefit of the doubt.
The first 5 days after the weekend are the hardest.
Indeed. If you live where I do, from now until November, those 5 days are followed by YardWorkDay and then OneDayWeekend, and repeat.
Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-
The first 5 days after the weekend are the hardest.
Indeed. If you live where I do, from now until November, those 5 days are followed by YardWorkDay and then OneDayWeekend, and repeat.
I had a house for about 5 years, which was sold when I got divorced in 2020. I'm currently living in an apartment, and I don't miss yardwork
& such at all. I'd like to buy a house again some time if I can afford it, but I'd like to find one that requires minimal or no yard work.
But then I still worry about house repairs & such. The "American
dream", right?
Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-
The first 5 days after the weekend are the hardest.
Indeed. If you live where I do, from now until November, those 5 day followed by YardWorkDay and then OneDayWeekend, and repeat.
I had a house for about 5 years, which was sold when I got divorced i 2020. I'm currently living in an apartment, and I don't miss yardwor & such at all. I'd like to buy a house again some time if I can affo it, but I'd like to find one that requires minimal or no yard work. But then I still worry about house repairs & such. The "American dream", right?
Heh, yeah... It is surely more challenging to be buying a house these days, but that situation seems to swing back and forth some, so perhaps it will get easier again.
The yardwork can indeed be a pain, but I look at it like this - keeping the house nice means that when you get old enough and it's time to "downsize", it will have enough value (when sold) to be able to buy a smaller place, and have quite a bit left over as a bonus. I'm not ready to downsize yet, but it will be paid for in under two years now.
boraxman wrote to Gamgee <=-
Indeed. If you live where I do, from now until November, those 5 day followed by YardWorkDay and then OneDayWeekend, and repeat.
I had a house for about 5 years, which was sold when I got divorced i 2020. I'm currently living in an apartment, and I don't miss yardwor & such at all. I'd like to buy a house again some time if I can affo it, but I'd like to find one that requires minimal or no yard work. But then I still worry about house repairs & such. The "American dream", right?
Heh, yeah... It is surely more challenging to be buying a house these days, but that situation seems to swing back and forth some, so perhaps
it will get easier again.
The yardwork can indeed be a pain, but I look at it like this - keeping the house nice means that when you get old enough and it's time to "downsize", it will have enough value (when sold) to be able to buy a smaller place, and have quite a bit left over as a bonus. I'm not ready to downsize yet, but it will be paid for in under two years now.
Does it get easier in the US? In Australia, it just gets harder and harder and harder, and prices go up with no respite.
I'm pretty sure our pollies are deliberately trying to make many of us homeless.
boraxman wrote to Gamgee <=-
Indeed. If you live where I do, from now until November, those followed by YardWorkDay and then OneDayWeekend, and repeat.
I had a house for about 5 years, which was sold when I got divor 2020. I'm currently living in an apartment, and I don't miss ya & such at all. I'd like to buy a house again some time if I can it, but I'd like to find one that requires minimal or no yard wo But then I still worry about house repairs & such. The "America dream", right?
Heh, yeah... It is surely more challenging to be buying a house thes days, but that situation seems to swing back and forth some, so perha it will get easier again.
The yardwork can indeed be a pain, but I look at it like this - keepi the house nice means that when you get old enough and it's time to "downsize", it will have enough value (when sold) to be able to buy a smaller place, and have quite a bit left over as a bonus. I'm not re to downsize yet, but it will be paid for in under two years now.
Does it get easier in the US? In Australia, it just gets harder and harder and harder, and prices go up with no respite.
Not sure what you mean by "get easier"... You mean as you get older? I'd say that depends on your planning and execution of financial goals and being careful. Prices go up everywhere, always, I think; but
nothing new about that.
I'm pretty sure our pollies are deliberately trying to make many of u homeless.
Could very well be true, and here too. The only defense is as I said above, planning carefully and managing finances to be where you need to be when retirement arrives. I'm about two years from that, and feel pretty good about where I'm at.
That doesn't cut it anymore. Most people could not buy a house. Period.
The prices are so out of kilter for most, its not worth scrimping and saving because unless they choose not to eat and not to pay tax, housing
is not an option.
boraxman wrote to Gamgee <=-
Not sure what you mean by "get easier"... You mean as you get older?
I'd say that depends on your planning and execution of financial goals
and being careful. Prices go up everywhere, always, I think; but
nothing new about that.
In Australia house prices have been pretty much going up steeply,
almost continuously for 20 years. Even on a managers salary, I could
not buy the house I grew up in, and neither of my parents finished
school.
I think prices in the US fell here and there, but here, it is hopeless.
Our country is screwed.
I'm pretty sure our pollies are deliberately trying to make many of u homeless.
Could very well be true, and here too. The only defense is as I said above, planning carefully and managing finances to be where you need to
be when retirement arrives. I'm about two years from that, and feel pretty good about where I'm at.
That doesn't cut it anymore. Most people could not buy a house.
Period. The prices are so out of kilter for most, its not worth
scrimping and saving because unless they choose not to eat and not to
pay tax, housing is not an option.
The ONLY solution is for prices to fall. No major party here, no party actually, would allow that to happen. Therefore the problem won't get fixed, and young people may as well just give up and fritter away their money.
Dmxrob wrote to Boraxman <=-
anything below that is a dump. You want something decent be prepared to shell out at least 400-500k. That is absolute ridiulousness and nobody can afford that. Rents are no different. Rental prices are $1800+ a month - on places that I very well remember used to be $250 a month.
Telling young people to just "watch their finances" and such isn't the solution. I know plenty of young folks who work and sleep, spend next
to nothing on outside activities, and are still scrimping. How many
jobs should they get to afford to eat and keep the rain off their
heads?
It's a huge crisis and the orange felon we elected President isn't
doing anything but making it worse.
-dmxrob
--- WWIV 5.9.03748[Linux 6.5.0-1026]
* Origin: Off the Wall - St. Peters, Missouri - #VoteBlue (21:4/142)
In Australia house prices have been pretty much going up steeply, almost continuously for 20 years. Even on a managers salary, I could not buy the house I grew up in, and neither of my parents finished school.
Re: Re: New to this
By: boraxman to Gamgee on Fri Apr 18 2025 05:02 pm
In Australia house prices have been pretty much going up steeply, alm continuously for 20 years. Even on a managers salary, I could not bu house I grew up in, and neither of my parents finished school.
House prices have been going up in the US as well, and I feel like house prices have especially skyrocketed in the last 5 years or so. It definitely feels like a seller's market. I feel like with the prices the way they are, I don't know how so many people can afford them, and I wonder if the market is going to burst and prices might have to come
down.
In central Texas, there is a large inventory of available houses, but nobody is buying. They aren't buying because the prices are too high and the mortgage rates are going up. I got my mortgage at 3.25%. I'm hearing of 7% rates going forward. Rates like that will keep the buyers away. The only buyers will be the big corps that can pay cash or get really really good rates. Then they will turn around and rent them for absurd amounts of money.
So it can't be much of a seller's market if there are so few eligible buyers out there.
BY: boraxman (21:1/101)
On Friday,April 18, 2025 at 04:02 PM, Boraxman (21:1/101) wrote:
That doesn't cut it anymore. Most people could not buy a house. Period
The prices are so out of kilter for most, its not worth scrimping and saving because unless they choose not to eat and not to pay tax, housin is not an option.
It's the same in the US. I feel fortunate we own our home, but we are
in our early 50s now. Young kids nowadays, 20s, 30s - they have next to no hope of owning a house.
Where I am, St. Louis, Missouri, houses can START at 350k - and anything below that is a dump. You want something decent be prepared to shell out at least 400-500k. That is absolute ridiulousness and nobody can afford that. Rents are no different. Rental prices are $1800+ a month - on places that I very well remember used to be $250 a month.
Telling young people to just "watch their finances" and such isn't the solution. I know plenty of young folks who work and sleep, spend next to nothing on outside activities, and are still scrimping. How many jobs should they get to afford to eat and keep the rain off their heads?
It's a huge crisis and the orange felon we elected President isn't doing anything but making it worse.
boraxman wrote to Gamgee <=-
Not sure what you mean by "get easier"... You mean as you get older? I'd say that depends on your planning and execution of financial goal and being careful. Prices go up everywhere, always, I think; but nothing new about that.
In Australia house prices have been pretty much going up steeply, almost continuously for 20 years. Even on a managers salary, I could not buy the house I grew up in, and neither of my parents finished school.
I think prices in the US fell here and there, but here, it is hopeles
Our country is screwed.
Well, that sucks. But.... I think housing prices have been going up steadily in every single country, for longer than 20 years. Inflation
is universal.
I'm pretty sure our pollies are deliberately trying to make many homeless.
Could very well be true, and here too. The only defense is as I said above, planning carefully and managing finances to be where you need be when retirement arrives. I'm about two years from that, and feel pretty good about where I'm at.
Well, I can't speak for conditions in Australia. I think it does cut
it, here in the USA. The actual problem is that MOST young people do
not do well with thinking/planning for their future, because they think they have all the time in the world.
That doesn't cut it anymore. Most people could not buy a house. Period. The prices are so out of kilter for most, its not worth scrimping and saving because unless they choose not to eat and not to pay tax, housing is not an option.
The ONLY solution is for prices to fall. No major party here, no par actually, would allow that to happen. Therefore the problem won't ge fixed, and young people may as well just give up and fritter away the money.
Again, I can't really know or speak about how things are in Australia. I'm not saying it's *EASY* to buy a house here in the USA, but it can be done, obviously. I own two of them, and so do both of my kids. In each case the second one is an investment, and will eventually be sold, at good profit.
Perhaps you should consider emmigrating to America? Legally, of course. :-)
Dmxrob wrote to Boraxman <=-
anything below that is a dump. You want something decent be prepared shell out at least 400-500k. That is absolute ridiulousness and nobo can afford that. Rents are no different. Rental prices are $1800+ a month - on places that I very well remember used to be $250 a month.
I went poking around on Zillow in the San Francisco bay area, a region notorious for out-of-hand housing prices. A San Francisco studio I
rented in 1991 for $600 is going for $2800. A 1-bedroom across the bay went from $575 to $2300.
Salaries certainly didn't increase by the same proportion. :(
My son is graduating college and looking to strike out on his own.
Against my advice, he's living in a wannabe apartment on campus. Since it's campus housing, he's going to have to move out and find a job. And try to get housing without a work history. He's going to have a couple
of roommates, for sure.
Telling young people to just "watch their finances" and such isn't th solution. I know plenty of young folks who work and sleep, spend nex to nothing on outside activities, and are still scrimping. How many jobs should they get to afford to eat and keep the rain off their heads?
It's a huge crisis and the orange felon we elected President isn't doing anything but making it worse.
Re: Re: New to this
By: boraxman to Gamgee on Fri Apr 18 2025 05:02 pm
In Australia house prices have been pretty much going up steeply, alm continuously for 20 years. Even on a managers salary, I could not bu house I grew up in, and neither of my parents finished school.
House prices have been going up in the US as well, and I feel like house prices have especially skyrocketed in the last 5 years or so. It definitely feels like a seller's market. I feel like with the prices the way they are, I don't know how so many people can afford them, and I wonder if the market is going to burst and prices might have to come
down.
I bought a house in 2015, a 1,644 square foot 2-story house which was $295,000 at the time (house prices widely vary acros sthe US, but I
think that was about average here for that house at the time). I sold that house in 2020 when I got divorced, and now, a seller would probably be asking around $420,000 or more for the same house. And I'm in a
(fairly good sized) suburb; in the 'big' city we're next to, I've seen house prices upwards of $700,000 and higher for an average house with nothing really special.
Re: Re: Housing Market
By: Gryphon to Nightfox on Sat Apr 19 2025 06:07 am
In central Texas, there is a large inventory of available houses, but nobody is buying. They aren't buying because the prices are too high the mortgage rates are going up. I got my mortgage at 3.25%. I'm hear of 7% rates going forward. Rates like that will keep the buyers away. only buyers will be the big corps that can pay cash or get really rea good rates. Then they will turn around and rent them for absurd amoun money.
So it can't be much of a seller's market if there are so few eligible buyers out there.
I imagine sellers would have to drop the prices then in order to attract buyers. I guess it might be more of a buyer's market..
boraxman wrote to Gamgee <=-
On 18 Apr 2025 at 08:24a, Gamgee pondered and said...
Well, that sucks. But.... I think housing prices have been going up steadily in every single country, for longer than 20 years. Inflation
is universal.
It's not inflation. Inflation everything goes up in tandem. This is specific to housing, and its deliberate. There were government
policies put in place DELIBERATELY to inflate the cost.
Well, I can't speak for conditions in Australia. I think it does cut
it, here in the USA. The actual problem is that MOST young people do
not do well with thinking/planning for their future, because they think they have all the time in the world.
Understandable. When I compare my situation to my parents (Boomer Generation), its quite different. What worked for them won't work for
me. You can't really plan for a future that is taken away from you. Imagine starting behind everyone else, and everyone in front of you is given advantages to run faster than you. You'll never catch up.
That is young people today. There is no point me telling my children
to "scrimp and save" because basically, the only way they'll get a
house is to inherit mine. They may as well wait for me to die. They could take managerial roles in a multinational, profitable corporation which is the #1 brand, like me, and still not afford them.
Again, I can't really know or speak about how things are in Australia.
I'm not saying it's *EASY* to buy a house here in the USA, but it can be done, obviously. I own two of them, and so do both of my kids. In each case the second one is an investment, and will eventually be sold, at
good profit.
The thing with using housing as a profitable investment, is that in
order for it to work, it has to become more unaffordable, thereby
making the problem worse. Australians love property investment, which
is why the market is shot. If this strategy worked, more and more
people would be able to afford homes. Clearly it doesn't.
boraxman wrote to Dmxrob <=-
Where I am, St. Louis, Missouri, houses can START at 350k - and anything below that is a dump. You want something decent be prepared to shell out at least 400-500k. That is absolute ridiulousness and nobody can afford that. Rents are no different. Rental prices are $1800+ a month - on places that I very well remember used to be $250 a month.
Telling young people to just "watch their finances" and such isn't the solution. I know plenty of young folks who work and sleep, spend next to nothing on outside activities, and are still scrimping. How many jobs should they get to afford to eat and keep the rain off their heads?
It's a huge crisis and the orange felon we elected President isn't doing anything but making it worse.
My mum is a Boomer, and she said people can just "Scrimp and Save" like she did. I asked her how long it took to pay off the mortgage. We
grew up in a decent suburb. The house wasn't a palace, but decent
enough standard middle class suburban house, not too far from
everything. She responded "5 years".
Keep in mind that neither of my parents finished school, so they
weren't professionals on high salary, nor did they pick up skills.
Just entry level jobs. Five years... She said she had help. Even then... Keep in mind, she had me when she was 22, and must have paid
the house off before turning 30. Imagine being able to pay off a
house, near good jobs, in your 20s, while supporting 2-3 children.
I did the math, and compared MY salary with the price of the house that sold across the road from her. I'm a working professional, a Manager,
and if I put 100% of my salary, 100% of it, I'd pay it off on 10. She would have had no hope at all buying a house today, with the kind of
work she and my dad did. I did the math in front of her, and well, I'm not sure the penny sunk...
The problem is that many just don't understand how things have changed.
Its a completely different. The bigger issue is that people are
putting off having children, which is having a detrimental demographic impact. This is quite serious
Anyway, I've ranted enough. I just think this issue is even bigger
than most people think it is.
boraxman wrote to Gamgee <=-
On 18 Apr 2025 at 08:24a, Gamgee pondered and said...
Well, that sucks. But.... I think housing prices have been going up steadily in every single country, for longer than 20 years. Inflatio is universal.
It's not inflation. Inflation everything goes up in tandem. This is specific to housing, and its deliberate. There were government policies put in place DELIBERATELY to inflate the cost.
I can't comment on that as I don't know if that's actually true.
Well, I can't speak for conditions in Australia. I think it does cut it, here in the USA. The actual problem is that MOST young people do not do well with thinking/planning for their future, because they thi they have all the time in the world.
Understandable. When I compare my situation to my parents (Boomer Generation), its quite different. What worked for them won't work fo me. You can't really plan for a future that is taken away from you. Imagine starting behind everyone else, and everyone in front of you i given advantages to run faster than you. You'll never catch up.
Not sure I understand. What has been taken away? Why are you starting behind others, and how did they get advantages over you?
The only solution to such a hypothetical situation is that you'd have to out-work and out-run them. That takes massive effort and commitment.... which are things that I believe are in pretty short supply in today's youth. Many (most?) of them want everything handed to them, and feel that they are entitled to anything they may want. Reality is a harsh mistress.
That is young people today. There is no point me telling my children to "scrimp and save" because basically, the only way they'll get a house is to inherit mine. They may as well wait for me to die. They could take managerial roles in a multinational, profitable corporatio which is the #1 brand, like me, and still not afford them.
I have a little trouble believing that, to be honest. One thing we haven't talked about is education levels... I think in today's world, a college degree is pretty much required for success, which is perhaps different than for previous generations. Even an advanced degree may be needed. I can assure you from personal experience and observations that those degrees make a HUGE difference in earning potential. <SHRUG>
Again, I can't really know or speak about how things are in Australia I'm not saying it's *EASY* to buy a house here in the USA, but it can done, obviously. I own two of them, and so do both of my kids. In e case the second one is an investment, and will eventually be sold, at good profit.
The thing with using housing as a profitable investment, is that in order for it to work, it has to become more unaffordable, thereby making the problem worse. Australians love property investment, whic is why the market is shot. If this strategy worked, more and more people would be able to afford homes. Clearly it doesn't.
It works if you own several and eventually sell them. I see your point, but that's what drives the free enterprise system, and the laws of supply/demand, and all that. It can be risky, and scary, and difficult to get started with, but it almost always pays off well. Probably one
of the safest investments there is.
I think a more positive outlook on things might benefit you a little. :-)
My mum is a Boomer, and she said people can just "Scrimp and Save" li she did. I asked her how long it took to pay off the mortgage. We grew up in a decent suburb. The house wasn't a palace, but decent enough standard middle class suburban house, not too far from everything. She responded "5 years".
Keep in mind that neither of my parents finished school, so they weren't professionals on high salary, nor did they pick up skills. Just entry level jobs. Five years... She said she had help. Even then... Keep in mind, she had me when she was 22, and must have paid the house off before turning 30. Imagine being able to pay off a house, near good jobs, in your 20s, while supporting 2-3 children.
I did the math, and compared MY salary with the price of the house th sold across the road from her. I'm a working professional, a Manager and if I put 100% of my salary, 100% of it, I'd pay it off on 10. Sh would have had no hope at all buying a house today, with the kind of work she and my dad did. I did the math in front of her, and well, I not sure the penny sunk...
The problem is that many just don't understand how things have change
Ahhhhh! You may have hit the nail on the head here! Of course things have changed. Yes. Things have changed. So.......... in order to succeed, we must change too! Nothing new about that. It's the way the world works. Lamenting about how bad it is now doesn't actually help anything. Those that succeed are those that change with the times.
IMHO higher education is the key to success today.
True. But you need plumbers, electricians, floor workers, forklift
driver, truckers, sanitary workers, window cleaners, electricians
and the plethora of jobs which do not require a college or
university degree. Also include farmers, retailers, shop workers,
etc, etc.
The economy has to be viable for these people as well. We require
them too.
You are starting behind others, because you are starting with no assets, and having to save up for a deposit. The price of the house goes up as fast aso
can save for a deposit. However, those who have houses, as investments, are seeing their investments increase in value, and can use that leverage toutbi
the new home buyer at auctions (which happens a lot). The investor can then rent out the house.r
If house prices rise faster than wages, then, mathematically speaking, they
becoming more and more unaffordable.
True. But you need plumbers, electricians, floor workers, forklift driver, truckers, sanitary workers, window cleaners, electricians and the plethora of jobs which do not require a college or university degree. Also include farmers, retailers, shop workers, etc, etc.
The economy has to be viable for these people as well. We require them too.
I have a little trouble believing that, to be honest. One thing we haven't talked about is education levels... I think in today's world, a college degree is pretty much required for success, which is perhaps different than for previous generations. Even an advanced degree may be needed. I can assure you from personal experience and observations that those degrees make a HUGE difference in earning potential. <SHRUG>
On 18 Apr 2025 at 01:02p, Nightfox pondered and said...
Re: Re: Housing Market
By: Gryphon to Nightfox on Sat Apr 19 2025 06:07 am
In central Texas, there is a large inventory of available houses, but
nobody is buying. They aren't buying because the prices are too high
the mortgage rates are going up. I got my mortgage at 3.25%. I'm hear
of 7% rates going forward. Rates like that will keep the buyers away.
only buyers will be the big corps that can pay cash or get really rea
good rates. Then they will turn around and rent them for absurd amoun
money.
So it can't be much of a seller's market if there are so few eligible
buyers out there.
I imagine sellers would have to drop the prices then in order to attract buyers. I guess it might be more of a buyer's market..
Not so. In Australia they just leave the house empty. Landlords are often stupid and greedy. These aren't sophisticated investors... I've seen businesses move out, close up, because of high rents, then the office/building stay EMPTY for months because of the insanely high ren
They just complain how unfair it all is instead of dropping their prices.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
It seems to me, the best solution for young people is forced wealth redistribution. More effective, and a better return on investment on
time and effort.
Utopian Galt wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-
The problem is we have so many regulations in California that make it harder for housing to be built. If we want less homeless people or
people like teachers and police officers to afford to live in the
places we work we need to work on a middle ground that does not shut
out construction.
boraxman wrote to Nightfox <=-
Not so. In Australia they just leave the house empty. Landlords are often stupid and greedy. These aren't sophisticated investors... I've seen businesses move out, close up, because of high rents, then the office/building stay EMPTY for months because of the insanely high
rent.
They just complain how unfair it all is instead of dropping their
prices.
Accession wrote to Boraxman <=-
True. But you need plumbers, electricians, floor workers, forklift
driver, truckers, sanitary workers, window cleaners, electricians
and the plethora of jobs which do not require a college or
university degree. Also include farmers, retailers, shop workers,
etc, etc.
The economy has to be viable for these people as well. We require
them too.
In a sense, I can agree that "higher education" is a good thing, but "college" is definitely questionable.. depending on what you use your
time and money there for. There are more useless degrees than there are useful ones. Getting out of college to an 80k debt while only making 40k/year is definitely not time and money well spent.
Dumas Walker wrote to BORAXMAN <=-
Yes. The last time that happened, we eventually had a housing crisis
that set off a recession. In that event, the housing prices rose well above what the houses were worth. There was an eventual correct (at
least in my area) and house prices fell back closer to their actual
worth.
The neighborhood I am in now has a slighly different problem. There
are a lot of pensioners who live here and own their homes. If they
have kids, chances are they have at least one that is a deadbeat who
hangs around waiting for them to kick off in hopes that they will wind
up with the house. It is still mostly nice, but for how long I don't know.
For whatever reason, the builders around here started mostly focusing
on housing developments where the houses start off in the mid-6 digit range, which is not affordable, and probably barely have a yard. They don't seem to be building new "starter homes." Apartments and condos, OTOH, they build those, too.
* SLMR 2.1a * Overhead the albatross hangs motionless upon the air...
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)
Hey Boraxman!
On Sat, Apr 19 2025 04:58:31 -0500, you wrote:
True. But you need plumbers, electricians, floor workers, forklift driver, truckers, sanitary workers, window cleaners, electricians
and the plethora of jobs which do not require a college or
university degree. Also include farmers, retailers, shop workers,
etc, etc.
The economy has to be viable for these people as well. We require
them too.
Keep in mind, besides maybe forklift drivers, truckers, farmers,
retailers and shop workers, most of these 'trades' do indeed have an apprenticeship, which includes paid-for schooling. This way you do not
get out of college starting out with a 5-6 figure debt, and you make decent money (at least enough to raise a family and buy a house.. even
if only on a single income, that's for sure).
In a sense, I can agree that "higher education" is a good thing, but "college" is definitely questionable.. depending on what you use your
time and money there for. There are more useless degrees than there are useful ones. Getting out of college to an 80k debt while only making 40k/year is definitely not time and money well spent.
Regards,
Nick
Yes. The last time that happened, we eventually had a housing crisis
that set off a recession. In that event, the housing prices rose well above what the houses were worth. There was an eventual correct (at
least in my area) and house prices fell back closer to their actual
worth.
I have not shopped around lately, so I don't know if the prices have overshot worth again.
True. But you need plumbers, electricians, floor workers, forklift driv truckers, sanitary workers, window cleaners, electricians and the pletho jobs which do not require a college or university degree. Also include farmers, retailers, shop workers, etc, etc.
Plumbers need at least a certification and, here, make good money. Electricians also need a certification and may attend trade school. They also make good money. Both may very well make more than someone with a university degree and an office job.
The economy has to be viable for these people as well. We require them t
Agreed. Part of what happens, though, is out of the hands of politicians and is more about neighbors. Here, you can find an affordable place but, chances are if the neighborhood is not already run down it soon will be
as the area will be more likely to attract neighbors (and landlords) who don't care to keep their properties up.
When I bought my first house, the neighborhood was a nice one with smaller, affordable homes. By the time I moved out 12 years later, my street still seemed mostly nice, but the one behind it started to have places that were not so well kept, and there were a couple of drug
dealers who'd moved in.
The neighborhood I am in now has a slighly different problem. There are
a lot of pensioners who live here and own their homes. If they have
kids, chances are they have at least one that is a deadbeat who hangs around waiting for them to kick off in hopes that they will wind up with the house. It is still mostly nice, but for how long I don't know.
For whatever reason, the builders around here started mostly focusing on housing developments where the houses start off in the mid-6 digit range, which is not affordable, and probably barely have a yard. They don't
seem to be building new "starter homes." Apartments and condos, OTOH, they build those, too.
Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-
Re: Re: New to this
By: Gamgee to boraxman on Fri Apr 18 2025 10:21 pm
I have a little trouble believing that, to be honest. One thing we haven't talked about is education levels... I think in today's world, a college degree is pretty much required for success, which is perhaps different than for previous generations. Even an advanced degree may be needed. I can assure you from personal experience and observations that those degrees make a HUGE difference in earning potential. <SHRUG>
There's a problem there too, in that tuition costs have generally risen quite high, and education debt is a problem for a lot of people.
We have high costs of housing (and everything else, with inflation),
but the very high costs of college tuition can be a barrier that
prevents people from getting an education that could enable a high
income for people. Lately I've been thinking more and more that
college shouldn't cost so much; maybe it shouldn't be free,
necessarily, but not so expensive as to be a burden on people who want higher education. Also, I think if more poeple are able to afford to
go to college, there would probably be an economic benefit to having
more people with degrees to contribute to production of a variety of products and services that benefit people (and which people generally buy).
boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
It seems to me, the best solution for young people is forced wealth redistribution. More effective, and a better return on investment on time and effort.
All the wealth will be overseas before the revolution, except for real estate - it's all we'll have left.
boraxman wrote to Nightfox <=-
Not so. In Australia they just leave the house empty. Landlords are often stupid and greedy. These aren't sophisticated investors... I'v seen businesses move out, close up, because of high rents, then the office/building stay EMPTY for months because of the insanely high rent.
They just complain how unfair it all is instead of dropping their prices.
That happens in the US all the time - businesses move out, but the
potential revenues for the lessee play into the collateral value.
Effectively, the landlord can't reduce the rent from inflated, bubble
values because that would trigger a collateral issue with the bank,
since the collateral is no longer worth what it was when signed against
the loan. The landlord would need to come up with additional
collateral to continue the loan.
Easier to keep it empty, hope for a sucker, take the tax write off and
blame it on Biden, Trump, Obama, or the Chinese.
There's a problem there too, in that tuition costs have generally risen
quite high, and education debt is a problem for a lot of people.
No argument with any of that. Very true.
However... there are ways to avoid much of that, sometimes. Won't work for everyone, but for some. Real-world example: We paid for my daughter's bachelor degree (Chemistry), with some help from the state (FL) on discounts on tuition for taking advanced classes in high school, and doing well. She did so well in those 4 years that she got a full-ride scholarship (including living expenses) to a major college in Texas to get both Masters and PhD degrees in Chemistry. Zero cost to us or her. Then she got hired by a major chemical company, who after a couple of years paid for her to attend another major college and get a Masters in Business Administration. So now she's an accomplished/published scientist with business knowledge as well, and zero student debt. The kind of things that CEO's are made out of (maybe one day).
Now, it would be easy to say that she was "fortunate" to get all that, but in reality it was all earned by HARD work and exceptional dedication to reaching goals. She got no special treatment, she just put in the effort needed to succeed. Granted not everyone can/will do that.
skills and training. The "trades" as some people call them. Carpenters, plumbers, welders, mechanics, etc. Very valuable people to a society and a way for those who can't go to college to still be successful people. Many of those jobs pay better than college-degree jobs in reality.
So, the system has a way of kind of self-regulating in order to provide a balanced set of workers. Seems to be pretty much OK in the overall scheme of things, to me.
Further education, even if an apprenticeship is of course,
valuable. I was just highlighting the silliness of this idea that
everyone should get a University degree and become a Doctor/Lawyer
to be able to afford a home, which is what some people imply.
Yeah, I've heard trades workers can earn good money. At the same
time, from what I've heard, many of those jobs can be physically
demanding - I'm thinking of things like plumbers, carpenters, people
who install flooring, and so on; a lot of those jobs are physical
work which can take a toll on you. And I've known a couple people
who work in plumbing who have said they often work long hours
(sometimes 60+ hours a week) and have odd hours, etc..
Hey Boraxman!
On Sat, Apr 19 2025 20:01:55 -0500, you wrote:
Further education, even if an apprenticeship is of course,
valuable. I was just highlighting the silliness of this idea that everyone should get a University degree and become a Doctor/Lawyer
to be able to afford a home, which is what some people imply.
Although, if you were to take the time and money to become a
doctor/lawyer you'd be able to afford a much more expensive home than
many of the other options. I agree, though, that the idea of the *need*
to go to college is just plain silly.
Unfortunately, the brainwashing in that direction has been around since
I was a kid, so it will take awhile to get people to believe that there has always been other viable options. ;)
Regards,
Nick
The ONLY solution is for prices to fall. No major party here, no party actually, would allow that to happen. Therefore the problem won't get fixed, and young people may as well just give up and fritter away their money.
My mum is a Boomer, and she said people can just "Scrimp and Save" like
The problem is that many just don't understand how things have changed. Its a completely different. The bigger issue is that people are putting off having children, which is having a detrimental demographic impact. This is quite serious
That is young people today. There is no point me telling my children to "scrimp and save" because basically, the only way they'll get a house is to inherit mine. They may as well wait for me to die. They could take managerial roles in a multinational, profitable corporatio which is the #1 brand, like me, and still not afford them.
I have a little trouble believing that, to be honest. One thing we haven't talked about is education levels... I think in today's world, a college degree is pretty much required for success, which is perhaps different than for previous generations. Even an advanced degree may be needed. I can assure you from personal experience and observations that those degrees make a HUGE difference in earning potential. <SHRUG>
The ONLY solution is for prices to fall. No major party here, no par actually, would allow that to happen. Therefore the problem won't ge fixed, and young people may as well just give up and fritter away the money.
Can you imagine the deflationary fallout if we had property prices drop? For older people, read whats left of Boomers here, you need ~75% the
value of a house to afford the deposit for aged care.
My mother, pain that she is, moved into a facility must be about 10 years ago... I've moved her twice in that time, when she first decided the one she was in was hell, and then after about 9months the alternative was a lower level of hell and decided to go back to the first one. The
deposit has climbed from 500k to over 650k now.... don't know to many oldies with that kind of cash balance, only asset tends to end up being their home.
You'd also have a bunch of current loan holders that end up with significantly less value in their purchase than the original loan, it'd turn the home into a millstone. You'd never be able to move from the one you've got if you're lucky enough to have one.
At the same time you're right what we have now is unsustainable. Somewhere along the line there's going to be a lot of pain to straighten it out.
Mine is of the same opinion... but its not a don't buy the smashed avo toast any more its well beyond that.
One of our problems has been immigration. While I'm not against it per se, ours has been high for years. It's become our way of maintaining
that population pyramid and the government is addicted to it. It helps push up accommodation pricing because we need to house them all, it also pulls wage growth down, with employment competition.
ST
There's a problem there too, in that tuition costs have generally risen quite high, and education debt is a problem for a lot of people.
That is young people today. There is no point me telling my chi to "scrimp and save" because basically, the only way they'll get house is to inherit mine. They may as well wait for me to die. could take managerial roles in a multinational, profitable corpo which is the #1 brand, like me, and still not afford them.
I have a little trouble believing that, to be honest. One thing we haven't talked about is education levels... I think in today's world college degree is pretty much required for success, which is perhaps different than for previous generations. Even an advanced degree may needed. I can assure you from personal experience and observations t those degrees make a HUGE difference in earning potential. <SHRUG>
Borax is pretty much on the money. We don't have the jobs for not sure what college is here, I'd have to guess University degree. We've been pushing more and more students down that path for years too... plus we keep taking students from O/S to help GDP as they have to pay their own way. A fair number of these students will then be able to stay, adding
to the job shortage and accommodation problems.
In Australia, at least in the bigger cities, we get gentrification.
Areas which were affordable rise in price as other people are pushed out of more expensive areas and move in. We often here in Australia of
"inner city slums" in the US, but we don't really have that here. The inner city may have graffiti and drugs, but its generally more
"Bohemian" and sought after by the young Liberal types who like quirky stores and Thai restaurants. Apart from some graffiti, there is lots to do and see, whereas the 'suburbs' here are more cultural wastelands with nothing.
Although, if you were to take the time and money to become a
doctor/lawyer you'd be able to afford a much more expensive home than
many of the other options. I agree, though, that the idea of the *need*
to go to college is just plain silly.
Having a net positive immigration intake seems to be one of those "but we've always done it this way..." scenarios, like a process at work
which no longer makes sense, but people still do it because its always been done.
them. I've seen a dearth of candidates, because HR refused to advertise anywhere else other than Linked in, and they filtered out candidates before I got to see them, despite not understanding the technical skills that were required.
It seems to me, the best solution for young people is forced wealth redistribution. More effective, and a better return on investment on time and effort.
I think in today's world, a
college degree is pretty much required for success, which is perhaps different than for previous generations.
burden on people who want higher education. Also, I think if more poeple are able to afford to go to college, there would probably be an economic benefit to having more people with degrees to contribute to production of a variety of products and services that benefit people (and which people
In Australia, at least in the bigger cities, we get gentrification. Areas which were affordable rise in price as other people are pushed of more expensive areas and move in. We often here in Australia of "inner city slums" in the US, but we don't really have that here. Th inner city may have graffiti and drugs, but its generally more "Bohemian" and sought after by the young Liberal types who like quirk stores and Thai restaurants. Apart from some graffiti, there is lots do and see, whereas the 'suburbs' here are more cultural wastelands w nothing.
I suspect that depends on your suburb... the more recent cookie cutter higher density burbs probably fit that bill to a T, but the older ones
at least around Melbourne still seem to have sufficient amenities. Even
if a lot of "strip" shops have disappeared.
Although, if you were to take the time and money to become a doctor/lawyer you'd be able to afford a much more expensive home than many of the other options. I agree, though, that the idea of the *nee to go to college is just plain silly.
That's not a given here... quite often our trades are able to make more than the higher ed end of town, largely because we don't have enough of them. Plus you'll have the HECS (tuition) debt badly impacting your ability to fund a loan for a purchase. And the higher end jobs are
already over supplied.
Having a net positive immigration intake seems to be one of those "bu we've always done it this way..." scenarios, like a process at work which no longer makes sense, but people still do it because its alway been done.
The level we have helps keep the economy afloat.. We seem to be perennially short of some skillset or another, and thats usually the justification. I believe, there's something like a $10k fee that goes
with coming here now.
Re: Re: New to this
By: boraxman to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Apr 19 2025 12:10 pm
It seems to me, the best solution for young people is forced wealth redistribution. More effective, and a better return on investment on t and effort.
I am among that millenial poor-as-rats generation.
The problem with wealth-redistribution, aka. stealing from a sector of
the population in order to give to another sector of the population, is that it covers up the symthomps but not the problem.
Governments have tried lots of tricks manipulating monetary mass in
order to ease purchasing power from certain sectors of the population,
but the problem is that for money to be worth anything it needs to be backed by something. If I inject 10 million Fictional Spanish Dollar in
a household, it won't do any good if the country does not produce stuff you can buy with those FSD. It won't do any good for purchasing stuff
from foreign suppliers because nobody outside will want FSD unless they can buy stuff from Spain.
The general problem in Western countries these days is they aren't built in a sustainable way. For any given industry there is a high amount of employees that exist without generating any value, and the whole system survives because of the efforts of a dwinling number of 50 year old workers. The population does not get to see this because Western
countries have been surviving on their inertia and past glories for a number of years already, so there is still enough bread and circus to survive by. However, cracks are starting to show in subtle ways, such as companies reaching a market value lower than their book value and being purchased by foreigner investors for cheap.
TL;DR western countries are collapsing under the weight of their own inefficiencies, which is causing them to quickly deflate in value as a whole, which allows international agents to buy the remains and then squeeze.
In Sydney, it can be hard to find particular types of trades people
or labourers in some places, simply because they can't afford to
live there. Those with the skills that are needed, simply can't be
in the proximity where the skills are required.
It's quite a simple thing to understand, that people with the skills
you rely on, need to be able to live near you. But yet people
advocate the exact opposite, that they should dissapear.
Then they complain of a skills shortage!! Then they complain that
the few that remain charge such high prices because of lack of
competition.
That's not a given here... quite often our trades are able to make
more than the higher ed end of town, largely because we don't have
enough of them. Plus you'll have the HECS (tuition) debt badly
impacting your ability to fund a loan for a purchase. And the higher
end jobs are already over supplied.
Yes. The last time that happened, we eventually had a housing crisis that set off a recession. In that event, the housing prices rose well above what the houses were worth. There was an eventual correct (at least in my area) and house prices fell back closer to their actual worth.
It wasn't just the housing price bubble, though, it was subprime loans
written as adjustable rate mortgages increasing that caused the default
rate to increase, yes?
The neighborhood I am in now has a slighly different problem. There
are a lot of pensioners who live here and own their homes. If they
have kids, chances are they have at least one that is a deadbeat who hangs around waiting for them to kick off in hopes that they will wind up with the house. It is still mostly nice, but for how long I don't know.
We have a couple of those - this is a bedroom/senior community, and
there are some 30-something "kids" still living at home, partying in
their parents basement and so on.
For whatever reason, the builders around here started mostly focusing
on housing developments where the houses start off in the mid-6 digit range, which is not affordable, and probably barely have a yard. They don't seem to be building new "starter homes." Apartments and condos, OTOH, they build those, too.
Any time an old house torn down around here, you know a McMansion twice
the size right up against the fenceline is going up.
In Australia, at least in the bigger cities, we get gentrification. Areas which were affordable rise in price as other people are pushed out of more expensive areas and move in. We often here in Australia of "inner citylums"
in the US, but we don't really have that here. The inner city may have graffiti and drugs, but its generally more "Bohemian" and sought after by the young Liberal types who like quirky stores and Thai restaurants. Apart from some graffiti, there is lots to do and see, whereas the 'suburbs' here areor
cultural wastelands with nothing.
people who want higher education. Also, I think if more poeple are able to afford to go to college, there would probably be an economic benefit toaving
more people with degrees to contribute to production of a variety of products and services that benefit people (and which people generally buy).
Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-
I think in today's world, a
college degree is pretty much required for success, which is perhaps different than for previous generations.
If you get to learn an industrial/installation/repair oriented trade
(ie. become and electrician or plumber or similar) you are going to
make an absolute killing in a whole lot of Europe. The problem is you
will be one of the few people doing the job so you will be chronically overwhelmed with more job than you can take.
The flip side is since you will be one of the few non-corporate
entities generating revenue you can expect half of your income to be
eaten away by the government in order to sustain the rest of the
system.
And if you speak to people who run their own business, they are finding
it hard to get good people. I've thought about taking up a trade, the income can be quite good if you're willing to put in a decent amount of quality work.
If you're good, word of mouth gets you far.
Oddly, the economy used to serve us much better, so its not really a testament to this policies success. I was better off 20 years ago when
I was just a Technical Office than now, when I'm in a more senior position.
There is a fee of about that much if you want Permanent Residency. Not sure about the initial VISA.
I think there are too many degreed workers around.
Seriously, people end up getting a Mechanical Engineering degree and end up serving drinks at a bar, or recycle themselves into becoming salesmen.
I recently watched a video for FIFO? Offshore oil rig work making
upwards of 200k/yr for only 6 months of work (1 month on, 1 month off
kind of stuff). If I lived out that way, I'd probably be interested in something like that.
Then again, I've always wanted to work with my hands.. which is something learned at a younger age. Have you ever, or do you still have shop
classes in grade school (woodworking, metals, auto, etc)?
Assuming they get degrees that are in demand. There are people who have degrees, and college debt, who got degrees in fields that there are not ever any high number of openings in, or that are only worth anything if you plan to use then to get into grad school to become a teacher or lawyer or such.
Otherwise, degrees in english, spanish, art, and history are rarely in high demand.
Hey Boraxman!
On Sun, Apr 20 2025 03:46:11 -0500, you wrote:
In Sydney, it can be hard to find particular types of trades people
or labourers in some places, simply because they can't afford to
live there. Those with the skills that are needed, simply can't be
in the proximity where the skills are required.
It's not uncommon to live a ways away from the cities where most of the work occurs. I tend to drive anywhere from 5 minutes up to an hour away
to certain job sites. Anything more than an hour I try to avoid, since
it doesn't benefit me without paid windshield time. Sometimes, per diem
is offered if driving more than (I think) 60 miles each way, etc.
It's quite a simple thing to understand, that people with the skills
you rely on, need to be able to live near you. But yet people
advocate the exact opposite, that they should dissapear.
Let them advocate for whatever they want. When their basement/septic
backs up or floods, or their shingles fly off their roof with a huge rainstorm on it's way, and they have to wait 2+ hours for someone to
show up, maybe they will change their opinion.
Then they complain of a skills shortage!! Then they complain that
the few that remain charge such high prices because of lack of competition.
It sounds like there's more complaining going on out that way, than
actual work getting done! ;)
Regards,
Yes. The last time that happened, we eventually had a housing cris that set off a recession. In that event, the housing prices rose w above what the houses were worth. There was an eventual correct (a least in my area) and house prices fell back closer to their actual worth.
It wasn't just the housing price bubble, though, it was subprime loans
written as adjustable rate mortgages increasing that caused the default
rate to increase, yes?
There was that, too. Something that people like to gloss over is that those loans were being written in the 1990s, at least here. They started defaulting en masse in ~10 years when the rates increased.
But the fact that the house they signed that deal on was priced well
above what it was worth didn't help as it meant they were paying more
and made the houses more difficult to shift later.
Supposedly, around here, when someone accepted a "zero down loan," if
they actually had money to put down, that was added to the advertised
sale price of the house, i.e. I buy a $75k home and put $5k down, the advertised sale prices was $80k. Someone sees that and thinks they
might could get $85k for their similar home. Eventually, the prices get too high and houses stop selling.
I can believe that was happening. I bought a $75k home in 1997 and, by the Summer of 1999, people were trying to sell houses on the same street that were the size of mine or smaller for over $110k. When a couple of owners tried $125k, that is when houses quit selling in that
neighborhood.
I knew the houses there didn't appreciate by 2/3rds in less than 2
years. I didn't have a zero-down loan, but others in that area did.
When I sold in 2009, the houses were back to selling for about what they were worth, just under $100k.
In Australia, at least in the bigger cities, we get gentrification. Are which were affordable rise in price as other people are pushed out of mo expensive areas and move in. We often here in Australia of "inner citylums"
in the US, but we don't really have that here. The inner city may have graffiti and drugs, but its generally more "Bohemian" and sought after b young Liberal types who like quirky stores and Thai restaurants. Apart some graffiti, there is lots to do and see, whereas the 'suburbs' here aor
cultural wastelands with nothing.
Sounds similar to here, except we do have the slums. Often, the gentrified areas have to put up with higher crime rates on the count of being located next to "the slums."
The suburbs are most often cultural wastelands, as they are there. There have been a few experimental suburbs built where they build "older looking" (on the outside) homes and also build little shops and office space in with them. The idea is to make them more "walkable" and more like a town than just a suburb.
And if you speak to people who run their own business, they are findi it hard to get good people. I've thought about taking up a trade, th income can be quite good if you're willing to put in a decent amount quality work.
If you're good, word of mouth gets you far.
I believe I started my apprenticeship just before the rot really set into training. Tradeschool had arrived at the point there was no pass fail
or how good, it was just competent or incompetent... There was still a bunch of old guys of various nationalities that would put you in your place if they thought you weren't doing things right.
Over the next few years the incoming apprentices tended to have a chip
on their shoulder, the already knew stuff, didn't like to, or refused to listen. So I can understand good staff being difficult to locate... on
the other hand if you're going to employ people, you can only take, for want of a better description the best of bad lot, a perfect fit is going to be few and far between, and you need to be able to figure out what makes them tick and get the best out of them. I've worked for a few people that were really good at this, and a lot not so much...
Oddly, the economy used to serve us much better, so its not really a testament to this policies success. I was better off 20 years ago wh I was just a Technical Office than now, when I'm in a more senior position.
I'd have to somewhat agree, I to was personally in a better position,
it'd be more than 20 years ago. Only paid 97k for my first home, and funding it wasn't a nightmare in itself. No way I could manage that
now, on those same types of jobs. The problems we see more obviously
now were still there... property was already on a wild trajectory it was just coming off a way lower base so it wasn't quite so obvious and the inflation it dragged with it hadn't bled across the whole economy yet.
There is a fee of about that much if you want Permanent Residency. N sure about the initial VISA.
Is that what it is.. never needed to look into it. Only got odd references from a few guys I used to work with. One place I worked had new guys almost every week... plenty of guys with Quals from OS they couldn't use because they weren't recognised here.
I couldn't imagine house prices so low! I do remember as a kid they were about $120+ for a decent home. But as prices starts to rise rapidly,
the base of what was "expensive" moved up and up. Notice how everyone always things the housing affordability crisis started last year? It's like the standard of affordability gets reset all the time.
I'd be skeptical of OS Quals as well.
Seriously, people end up getting a Mechanical Engineering degree and end up serving drinks at a bar, or recycle themselves into becoming salesmen.
But is that because there really are too many degreed workers (too much supply)?
I am new to this FSX. How is everyone?
tudenOtherwise, degrees in english, spanish, art, and history are rarely in high demand.
Sometimes it can be hard to tell which degrees will be in demand when a
graduates. When a student first starts college, a certain degree or skillset might be highly in demand, but after maybe 4 years when they graduate, itigh
not be really in demand anymore. And degrees that take longer (such asedica
doctors, etc.) might be taking more of a risk since their degrees take longer to complete, though it may be a fairly safe bet that there will always beood
demand for medical doctors.
boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
No, make smart choices. Don't buy overvalued assets. If you have overvalued assets, dispose of them and go into another investment
class.
They need to teach this!
My mum is a Boomer, and she said people can just "Scrimp and Save" like she did. I asked her how long it took to pay off the mortgage. We grew up in a decent suburb. The house wasn't a palace, but decent enough standard middle class suburban house, not too far from everything. She responded "5 years".
There is also the problem that there aren't entry level jobs anymore. If you dive into the job pool trying to fish for the most accessible position you will find nearly everything requires 2-3 years of experience and mastery with some tool specific to the field.
I'm not really sure this is true.. I'm pretty sure I still see some entry-level openings for my field sometimes..
Gryphon wrote to boraxman <=-
On 19 Apr 2025 at 11:53a, boraxman pondered and said...
My mum is a Boomer, and she said people can just "Scrimp and Save" like she did. I asked her how long it took to pay off the mortgage. We grew up in a decent suburb. The house wasn't a palace, but decent enough standard middle class suburban house, not too far from everything. She responded "5 years".
I bought my first house in 1997 in a Nor Cal city suburb for $116K.
3bed 2bath 1400sqft on a corner lot. Sold it 5years later for $210K.
Today that same house is in the neighborhood of $500k. So I suspect
that when your mom bought the house at 22, she bought it at least 20+ years ago when prices were so much lower. Incomes have not increased at the same rate as home prices so there's that.
StormTrooper wrote to Nightfox <=-
I'm not really sure this is true.. I'm pretty sure I still see some entry-level openings for my field sometimes..
One of the problems is, where we went from having an undersupply of
grads and the education itself was the hurdle, there were plenty of positions to go round. Now here at least, we had about 30 years of
feed everyone you can into that education mill, just having the degree
or whatever it might be is no longer enough on its own. You're back to
it being an absolute minimum and experience with the work and a work environment have become more imortant in thinning the applicants out.
Most of our FIFO stuff is mining. I think you'd have to have the
right mindset to cope with it.. While it pays well, it's a pretty
limited field.
That was all gone by the time I hit highschool. They were always
worried about safety concerns. Got 1 semester, about 6 months of
pretty low grade woodwork. The usual wooden spoon, stool kinda
stuff. More recently they seem to have outsourced these things to
TAFEs facilities, (Tertiary and Further Education) they run
apprenticeship courses and are already geared towards this kind of
thing. But I don't know just what they offer at school level these
days.
#1 Son was able to get into an Auto Mechanics course. He's since
near completed an apprenticeship in the same.
boraxman wrote to StormTrooper <=-
One of the problems is, where we went from having an undersupply of
grads and the education itself was the hurdle, there were plenty of positions to go round. Now here at least, we had about 30 years of
feed everyone you can into that education mill, just having the degree
or whatever it might be is no longer enough on its own. You're back to
it being an absolute minimum and experience with the work and a work environment have become more imortant in thinning the applicants out.
Technically, you need a science degree to do my job, but I reckon 95%
of it can be done without one, and the other 5% you could muddle
through without it or just research on the go. I definately don't need the entire degree to do this.
Same with programming, I learned it myself, and see people with degrees who struggle to do what I taught myself. Degrees are overrated.
Does "TAFE" occur well before the child becomes an adult (if so, then
that is a good thing)? Or is this something they have to go do after
they finish normal school? If that's the case, that was a terrible idea..
Does "TAFE" occur well before the child becomes an adult (if so, then that is a good thing)? Or is this something they have to go do after they finish normal school? If that's the case, that was a terrible id
TAFE used to be aimed pretty squarely at adults... its an odd
insitution, you can do almost any kind of course, at almost any level.. Everything from essentially hobby level stuff, through uni entry courses.
I s'pose its pretty much always covered trades, but in the days of my youth that was kinda hidden, the push was always more education. In theory as soon as you're of age to leave/drop off out highschool you
could hit the TAFE circuit...
boraxman wrote to StormTrooper <=-
One of the problems is, where we went from having an undersupply of grads and the education itself was the hurdle, there were plenty of positions to go round. Now here at least, we had about 30 years of feed everyone you can into that education mill, just having the degre or whatever it might be is no longer enough on its own. You're back it being an absolute minimum and experience with the work and a work environment have become more imortant in thinning the applicants out.
Technically, you need a science degree to do my job, but I reckon 95% of it can be done without one, and the other 5% you could muddle through without it or just research on the go. I definately don't ne the entire degree to do this.
Same with programming, I learned it myself, and see people with degre who struggle to do what I taught myself. Degrees are overrated.
No doubt that *sometimes* degrees are very overrated. But there are
some jobs that you CANNOT do the required work without that degree (and even advanced degrees), because you simply would not understand the job. Those kind of jobs can't be faked. I'm talking about things like
nuclear work, physics, chemistry, some medical work, and more. You
can't learn some things "on the fly" or with OJT. Another example of when a degree is required is when the employer won't even consider you unless you have that "credential", regardless of actual knowledge or experience.
In the end, I think it's self-regulating. People with useless degrees end up in jobs that don't require a degree. People with no degree sometimes hit the right combination and make it big. People with "trades" skills often make much more money than many "degreed" jobs.
boraxman wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
I haven't been to slums in the US, but from what video I've seen,
they're worse than here. I've seen "no go " areas in Europe, and
again, thats a problem we don't have as much of here.
StormTrooper wrote to boraxman <=-
This was truly the "Renovators Delight" and worst house in the street. Sold it out ~5 years later and the prices had already more than
doubled. Probably close to 215%... but so long as someone can buy it...
I guess in some sense they're still affordable. But even by then I'd be struggling to buy from scratch.
Arelor wrote to Nightfox <=-
There is also the problem that there aren't entry level jobs anymore.
If you dive into the job pool trying to fish for the most accessible position you will find nearly everything requires 2-3 years of
experience and mastery with some tool specific to the field.
Frankly, the whole get-a-job process is so fucked up these days that people should just skip it altogether and set up their own shop.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.24-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
No doubt that I would prefer someone who studied medicine to perform surgery, over someone "self taught". However "degree preferred" type jobs? Someone smart, able to learn would be just as good. A friend in the software development industry was saying his company for a time was looking at SPECIFICALLY people who were self taught, did not do a degree in software, to get a different perspective, and not be dissapointed.
Same with programming, I learned it myself, and see people with degrees who struggle to do what I taught myself. Degrees are overrated.
boraxman wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
I haven't been to slums in the US, but from what video I've seen, they're worse than here. I've seen "no go " areas in Europe, and again, thats a problem we don't have as much of here.
I should pull the dashcams out of my car from my drive through Oakland, CA. Sometimes my nav system routes me through side streets under the freeway, and they've grown since I left in 2007. 5-6 blocks of
continuous dead vehicles, tarp tents, regular tents, walls made of pallets...
It was never that bad before - but drive 5 minutes and you're in areas with manicured front lawns, immaculate houses, nice cars...
Same with programming, I learned it myself, and see people with degre who struggle to do what I taught myself. Degrees are overrated.
I've viewed degrees as minimums.
E.g., a high school degree isn't a guarantee that someone is competent; it's just proof that you were able to sit through classes through a certain age, and that reduces some of the risk people would take in
hiring someone.
And same with a college education, except that there's a _little_ more
on what people would have had to have learned in order to make it
through.
And, so, a degree isn't a requirement for being good at programming;
it's just that it's a way of easily dismissing a group of people that
will be 90%+ people with little to no programming skills.
So the degree becomes important. Not because of the skills, but because it's a sieve for people doing hiring decisions.
That said, I _did_ get a lot out of my master's program, and I certainly left it knowing more than I did going into it. Even though, going into
it, I was already plenty techy, if worse at programming.
Obviously, if people are making something on their own, degrees are only useful for the information gained, or if the degree lends some level of prestige that can be used for marketing purposes.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
@TZUTC: 1200
@MSGID: 21:1/101 830d2015
@REPLY: 69432.fsx_gen@21:4/122 2c6df43f
@TID: Mystic BBS 1.12 A48
@PID: clrghouz e2cd09ac
@DBID: 717434
@PATH: 1/100 3/100 110
On 22 Apr 2025 at 08:00a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...
boraxman wrote to Dumas Walker <=-
I haven't been to slums in the US, but from what video I've see they're worse than here. I've seen "no go " areas in Europe, an again, thats a problem we don't have as much of here.
I should pull the dashcams out of my car from my drive through Oaklan CA. Sometimes my nav system routes me through side streets under the freeway, and they've grown since I left in 2007. 5-6 blocks of continuous dead vehicles, tarp tents, regular tents, walls made of pallets...
It was never that bad before - but drive 5 minutes and you're in area with manicured front lawns, immaculate houses, nice cars...
Sounds like parts of the US are turning into a third countr.y
@TZUTC: 1200
@MSGID: 21:1/101 c8271f8f
@REPLY: 21:2/108 e789b2ba
@TID: Mystic BBS 1.12 A48
@PID: clrghouz e2cd09ac
@DBID: 717436
@PATH: 1/100 3/100 110
On 22 Apr 2025 at 09:45p, Adept pondered and said...
Same with programming, I learned it myself, and see people with who struggle to do what I taught myself. Degrees are overrated.
I've viewed degrees as minimums.
E.g., a high school degree isn't a guarantee that someone is competen it's just proof that you were able to sit through classes through a certain age, and that reduces some of the risk people would take in hiring someone.
And same with a college education, except that there's a _little_ mor on what people would have had to have learned in order to make it through.
And, so, a degree isn't a requirement for being good at programming; it's just that it's a way of easily dismissing a group of people that will be 90%+ people with little to no programming skills.
So the degree becomes important. Not because of the skills, but becau it's a sieve for people doing hiring decisions.
That said, I _did_ get a lot out of my master's program, and I certai left it knowing more than I did going into it. Even though, going int it, I was already plenty techy, if worse at programming.
Obviously, if people are making something on their own, degrees are o useful for the information gained, or if the degree lends some level prestige that can be used for marketing purposes.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
Further education can be a liability too, as people are tau.ecalpkrow
eht ot
revo yrrac neht yeht hcihw ,sfeileb laicos dna lacitilop egnarts rehtar ,saera emos ni ,thg
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
I've viewed degrees as minimums.
E.g., a high school degree isn't a guarantee that someone is competent; it's just proof that you were able to sit through classes through a certain age, and that reduces some of the risk people would take in hiring someone.
Further education can be a liability too, as people are tau.ecalpkrow eht ot
revo yrrac neht yeht hcihw ,sfeileb laicos dna lacitilop egnarts rehtar ,saera emos ni ,thg
I s'pose its pretty much always covered trades, but in the days of
my youth that was kinda hidden, the push was always more education.
In theory as soon as you're of age to leave/drop off out highschool
you could hit the TAFE circuit...
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to boraxman <=-
I haven't been to slums in the US, but from what video I've seen,
they're worse than here. I've seen "no go " areas in Europe, and
again, thats a problem we don't have as much of here.
I should pull the dashcams out of my car from my drive through Oakland, CA. Sometimes my nav system routes me through side streets under the freeway, and they've grown since I left in 2007. 5-6 blocks of
continuous dead vehicles, tarp tents, regular tents, walls made of pallets...
It was never that bad before - but drive 5 minutes and you're in areas with manicured front lawns, immaculate houses, nice cars...
blood? I'm hearing shop classes are making their way back into some of
the schools that removed them around these parts (luckily those schools weren't near me).
Re: Re: New to this
By: boraxman to Adept on Wed Apr 23 2025 10:03 am
Further education can be a liability too, as people are tau.ecalpkrow ot
revo yrrac neht yeht hcihw ,sfeileb laicos dna lacitilop egnarts reht ,saera emos ni ,thg
... say what?
Further education can be a liability too, as people are tau.ecalpkrow eht ot
revo yrrac neht yeht hcihw ,sfeileb laicos dna lacitilop egnarts rehtar ,saera emos ni ,thg
This one wasn't cut off, but did get scrambled somehow.
Got to fix JuiceSSH on my Android. I was saying that University degrees can be a liability, because people learn some strange and extreme political and social view from Uni, that get transferred into the workplace, where they are definately less than welcome.
He started speaking backwards mid message. Maybe he is a witch!!! :D
After finishing high school, students get a 'diploma', not a 'degree' (at least, where I am, I've never heard of ca high school calling it a "high school degree").
This one wasn't cut off, but did get scrambled somehow.
Further education can be a liability too, as people are tau.ecalpkrow eht ot
revo yrrac neht yeht hcihw ,sfeileb laicos dna lacitilop egnarts reht ,saera emos ni ,thg
I suppose that does make sense, as the diploma is what you get at the end of the education, and the degree is what you accomplished while there.
And, since there's no specialization with high school things, you get both diplomas and degrees in universities, but only diplomas in high school.
I'm usually ready for the weekend as soon as I wake up on Monday. ;)
Regards,
Does it get easier in the US? In Australia, it just gets harder and harder and
harder, and prices go up with no respite.
I'm pretty sure our pollies are deliberately trying to make many of us homeless.
What's the difference between a college diploma and a college degree?
What's the difference between a college diploma and a college degree?
The diploma is the piece of paper that says you've graduated / finished the program. It likely will mention the degree that was earned.
Nightfox wrote to Adept <=-
What's the difference between a college diploma and a college degree?
The diploma is the piece of paper that says you've graduated / finished the program. It likely will mention the degree that was earned.
Isn't the degree also a confirmation that you've graduated and
completed the program? My understanding is that the degree says you've graduated & completed the program and are thus are qualified for the material covered in the program. Having a diploma to also say you've completed the program seems redundant to me (and I don't recall seeing
a college in my area issuing dimplomas separately). I have an
associates and a bachelor's degree that were issued to me after I
finished the college programs but never got a college diploma issued to me.
Does it get easier in the US? In Australia, it just gets harder and harder and harder, and prices go up with no respite.
I'm pretty sure our pollies are deliberately trying to make many of u homeless.
It does seem that way here in Aus. I believe its the same in NZ too lately... The issue here is that anyone that HAS property doesn't want
I think they are saying (and I agree) that the degree itself isn't a physical "thing". The diploma is. The diploma states that you have earned the degree.
The framed thing you hang on the wall is a diploma, proclaiming that you have earned the degree.
Re: Re: New to this
By: boraxman to Nightfox on Wed Apr 23 2025 11:56 pm
Got to fix JuiceSSH on my Android. I was saying that University degr can be a liability, because people learn some strange and extreme political and social view from Uni, that get transferred into the workplace, where they are definately less than welcome.
I feel like that would be a strange thing to be happening. I can't say I experienced any political bias in college, but maybe some colleges & universities are doing that for some reason..
What's a weekend??
This one wasn't cut off, but did get scrambled somehow.
It's _mostly_ fine if you read it backwards.
Further education can be a liability too, as people are tau.ecal eht ot
revo yrrac neht yeht hcihw ,sfeileb laicos dna lacitilop egnarts ,saera emos ni ,thg
Does it get easier in the US? In Australia, it just gets harder and harder and
harder, and prices go up with no respite.
I'm pretty sure our pollies are deliberately trying to make many of u homeless.
It does seem that way here in Aus. I believe its the same in NZ too lately... The issue here is that anyone that HAS property doesn't want
the prices to fall as houses are an investment no matter which way you look at it. Politicians no doubt all have investments portfolios that include some number of properties too, so they'll do anything in their power to make negative gearing work!
Wife and I own (via mortgage) the home we live in, but also have a townhouse as an investment in our super... While I don't like that our kids are unlikely to be unable to purchase property when the time comes, for us I'm banking on prices increasing - ultimately hopefully leaving a small nest egg for them when we're gone. Not sure how far it will go
when divided for 6 kids :D
Ahhh life...
boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Sounds like parts of the US are turning into a third countr.y
Accession wrote to StormTrooper <=-
I get it. The days of my youth the push was always more education,
also. However, we had those shop classes all throughout high school, at least to give the idea that if more education wasn't for you, there was other options.
boraxman wrote to Nightfox <=-
Got to fix JuiceSSH on my Android. I was saying that University
degrees can be a liability, because people learn some strange and
extreme political and social view from Uni, that get transferred into
the workplace, where they are definately less than welcome.
Nightfox wrote to Adept <=-
What's the difference between a college diploma and a college degree?
My mum is a Boomer, and she said people can just "Scrimp and Save" likeAs someone who is "older" now (50s) statements like that piss me off. It is amazing how people 20 years older than I am think the world hasn't changed since 1955. They don't realize, or want to acknowledge, how many government programs and aid they had in their day, compared to what Gen X and beyond got - which was squat.
she did. I asked her how long it took to pay off the mortgage. We grew
Anyway, I've ranted enough. I just think this issue is even bigger than most people think it is.
boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Sounds like parts of the US are turning into a third countr.y
Reduce the middle class and turn housing into an investment vehicle,
and that's what happens.
boraxman wrote to Nightfox <=-
Got to fix JuiceSSH on my Android. I was saying that University degrees can be a liability, because people learn some strange and extreme political and social view from Uni, that get transferred into the workplace, where they are definately less than welcome.
Yeah, but they can unlearn them, too. Uni was a great place for people
to become as libral or conservative or as alternative as they wanted to
in a safe place to do so. For a couple of years.
One of the dramas I saw play out multiple times were committed same-sex
relationships between two women in college. Unfortunately, one of them
was more confident in their sexuality and their partner was
experimenting. As soon as they graduated, got jobs and started
associating with people outside of that environment, they chose to date
men and forget about "that phase".
It happened often enough that there was a term for it - LUG, or Lesbian
Until Graduation. Lots of heartache among my friends.
BY: boraxman (21:1/101)
On Saturday,April 19, 2025 at 10:53 AM, Boraxman (21:1/101) wrote:
My mum is a Boomer, and she said people can just "Scrimp and Save" like she did. I asked her how long it took to pay off the mortgage. We greAs someone who is "older" now (50s) statements like that piss me off.
It is amazing how people 20 years older than I am think the world hasn't changed since 1955. They don't realize, or want to acknowledge, how
many government programs and aid they had in their day, compared to what Gen X and beyond got - which was squat.
This attitude nowadays of "I got mine, and screw you" is prevelant with
so many people of that generation, and others. They feel the younger generation should shoulder all the burden of society and taxes while
they amass even more wealth. I'm very much against that, and believe
that EVERYONE - I don't care your age - should pay in to taxes, etc. I don't support "senior tax freeze" nonsense. Why should young families have to "scrimp" to pay for services you are using while you have more than enough assets to pay for own?
Anyway, I've ranted enough. I just think this issue is even bigger tha most people think it is.
It is... and getting worse .
Thank you Klunk. I hope you have a great weekend.I am new to this FSX. How is everyone?
Welcome to FSX. I'm good thank you.
Klunk
... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives
Re: New to thisThank you very much.
By: Meghan Fitzgerald to All on Tue Apr 15 2025 06:52 pm
I am new to this FSX. How is everyone?
Doing well. Welcome!
On 15 Apr 2025 at 06:52p, Meghan Fitzgerald pondered and said...
No not my first time. I have been using this one here for many years and now that I am getting close to retirement with more free time I wanted to get back into this. I used FidoNet a LONG time ago and am starting to get back into it. I don't like the way social media today looks and feels. This is what I remember most. Have a great day and thanks for writing back to me.I am new to this FSX. How is everyone?
Meg
Welcome. Obviously not your first time on BBS?
Thank you. I hope to be on a little more often soon.I am new to this FSX. How is everyone?
Meg
The horrors persist, but so do I.
Welcome to the net!
What's the difference between a college diploma and a college degree?
The diploma is the piece of paper that says you achiieved a college degree.
It happened often enough that there was a term for it - LUG, or Lesbian
Until Graduation. Lots of heartache among my friends.
I've known women who went through that, one or two. One stated that they broke up with a guy, and decided to try women. Its interesting how that happens, as I would wager most men would NEVER consider dating other men, simply because the last woman they were with didn't quite work out.
I don't really support the idea of "experimenting" at Uni. You should be finding reality, finding your feet, not going off on tangents that lead nowhere.
boraxman wrote to Adept <=-
A very strange way for an SSH client to behave! To literally insert
the same characters, but backwards at the end!
I've heard of guys "experimenting" in college too. And for some peple,
I think going off on tangents and experimenting in college may actually
be a way to find reality. As they say sometimes, you never know until
you try..
Meghan Fitzgerald wrote to boraxman <=-
On 15 Apr 2025 at 06:52p, Meghan Fitzgerald pondered and said...
I am new to this FSX. How is everyone?
Meg
Welcome. Obviously not your first time on BBS?
No not my first time. I have been using this one here for many years
and now that I am getting close to retirement with more free time I
wanted to get back into this. I used FidoNet a LONG time ago and am starting to get back into it. I don't like the way social media today looks and feels. This is what I remember most. Have a great day and
thanks for writing back to me. Meg
Nightfox wrote to boraxman <=-
Re: Re: New to this
By: boraxman to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Apr 26 2025 01:47 am
It happened often enough that there was a term for it - LUG, or Lesbian
Until Graduation. Lots of heartache among my friends.
I've known women who went through that, one or two. One stated that they broke up with a guy, and decided to try women. Its interesting how that happens, as I would wager most men would NEVER consider dating other men, simply because the last woman they were with didn't quite work out.
I don't really support the idea of "experimenting" at Uni. You should be finding reality, finding your feet, not going off on tangents that lead nowhere.
I've heard of guys "experimenting" in college too. And for some peple,
I think going off on tangents and experimenting in college may actually
be a way to find reality. As they say sometimes, you never know until
you try..
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to boraxman <=-
boraxman wrote to Adept <=-
A very strange way for an SSH client to behave! To literally insert
the same characters, but backwards at the end!
62 TOR encryption?
covered in the program. Having a diploma to also say you've completed
the program seems redundant to me (and I don't recall seeing a college
in my area issuing dimplomas separately). I have an associates and a
It happened often enough that there was a term for it - LUG, or Lesbian
Until Graduation. Lots of heartache among my friends.
Every week in my city they march and yell, and when you speak to them, they are utterly clueless about the politics they peddle.
I've heard of guys "experimenting" in college too. And for some peple,
I think going off on tangents and experimenting in college may actually
be a way to find reality. As they say sometimes, you never know until
you try..
I could never understand why people just automatically go to college
with no idea what they want to study. I knew years before I started
Experimenting would be trying new hobbies, joining groups, societies, finding what you like. Just smoking weed, getting drunk and doing
drugs though...
Quoting Nightfox to Adept <=-
Re: Re: New to this
By: Adept to Nightfox on Thu Apr 24 2025 05:41 pm
What's the difference between a college diploma and a college degree?
The diploma is the piece of paper that says you've graduated / finished the program. It likely will mention the degree that was earned.
Isn't the degree also a confirmation that you've graduated and
completed the program? My understanding is that the degree says
you've graduated & completed the program and are thus are qualified
for the material covered in the program. Having a diploma to also say you've completed the program seems redundant to me (and I don't recall seeing a college in my area issuing dimplomas separately). I have an associates and a bachelor's degree that were issued to me after I
finished the college programs but never got a college diploma issued
to me.
Quoting Boraxman to Dflorey <=-
As for politicians keeping prices high for their own personal benefit. They are traitors to their nation, and should be dealt with as such.
How people think this is acceptable, and shouldn't result in severe punishment is beyond me. But hey, thats why we're all going to end up homeless, because we accept this from them.
Quoting Poindexter Fortran to Accession <=-
I've said it before - the two classes I regret not taking in high
school were auto shop and typing.
I'm surprised that the kids in auto shop got to use the facilities
outside of class and on their own cars. Nowadays, that would be a liability nightmare.
Quoting Dmxrob to Boraxman <=-
BY: boraxman (21:1/101)
On Saturday,April 19, 2025 at 10:53 AM, Boraxman (21:1/101) wrote:
My mum is a Boomer, and she said people can just "Scrimp and Save" like
she did. I asked her how long it took to pay off the mortgage. We grew
As someone who is "older" now (50s) statements like that piss me off.
It is amazing how people 20 years older than I am think the world
hasn't changed since 1955. They don't realize, or want to
acknowledge, how many government programs and aid they had in their
day, compared to what Gen X and beyond got - which was squat.
This attitude nowadays of "I got mine, and screw you" is prevelant
with so many people of that generation, and others. They feel the
younger generation should shoulder all the burden of society and taxes while they amass even more wealth.
I'm very much against that, and
believe that EVERYONE - I don't care your age - should pay in to
taxes, etc. I don't support "senior tax freeze" nonsense. Why should young families have to "scrimp" to pay for services you are using
while you have more than enough assets to pay for own?
Quoting Boraxman to Dmxrob <=-
On 25 Apr 2025 at 10:43a, Dmxrob pondered and said...
We're in for some big trouble...
By the way, I did once work a job where I took complaints and queries about consumer products. The older people had the greatest sense of entitlement, by far. A friend who worked in a financial services
company, taking calls, had the same feedback.
I don't really like how Social Media works. Toxic, and the interface
is pretty poor too. Unfortunately, that is where the people are, but
its like having to walk into a minefield to talk to people, because
everyone else is there. You stand there and say "We shouldn't stand
in a minefield", but everyone stays, because thats where the people
are.
(in the US. The UK's version is a lot of debt, but if your job doesn't
pay well, it's irrelevant. And Germany's version is cheap.)
I've heard of guys "experimenting" in college too. And for some peple,
I think going off on tangents and experimenting in college may actually
be a way to find reality. As they say sometimes, you never know until
you try..
I could never understand why people just automatically go to college with no idea what they want to study. I knew years before I started college. Maybe some people have money to burn, but I wanted to make every day count. It took me 10 years to pay off my college loans and I would feel foolish if I wasted all of that time and money "experimenting."
boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I don't really support the idea of "experimenting" at Uni. You should
be finding reality, finding your feet, not going off on tangents that
lead nowhere.
Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
The diploma is the piece of paper that says you achiieved a college degree.
That's something I hadn't realized, or really thought about..
Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Also, "LUG" sounds like a... questionable term that dismisses young women's experiences as being a "fad". So I'd be wary on using it unless you were one of the women describing herself.
Cougar428 wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-
I loved auto shop, as you mentioned I could pull my 1970 F-100 into the garage and work on the 360 for an hour! That thing was a beast. I never really took advantage of the facilities after hours though.
Adept wrote to boraxman <=-
Every week in my city they march and yell, and when you speak to them, they are utterly clueless about the politics they peddle.
To be fair, given my personal pedantry, political science degree, and long-established reading habits, I feel that about a large portion of people, regardless of whether I agree with them or not.
And, on many days, I even feel it about myself, as there are many areas where I know shockingly little. Even if I don't realize it afterward, because of the Dunning Krueger effect.
That said, in all my "reasonableness", it's the unreasonable person
that drives change, way more than I ever will.
Adept wrote to boraxman <=-
Experimenting would be trying new hobbies, joining groups, societies, finding what you like. Just smoking weed, getting drunk and doing
drugs though...
On the other hand, drinking with friends in frats is a time-honored tradition for getting ahead.
(I don't think it has worked _quite_ like that in sororities)
That said, I had a flatmate who was in school, and with whom I drank,
and somehow that turned into starting a winery.
(If I'm going to be pedantic, I'd also point out that we literally
_never_ got drunk doing this, so it's probably _technically_ closer to "trying new hobbies" than "getting drunk", but I feel as though that
ruins the entertainment value, so would be fine if people pretend this paragraph doesn't exist.)
Not that this means I disagree with your statement. I'm just prone to
some amount of being contrary because of my brain always trying to find flaws in data and arguments.
Cougar428 wrote to boraxman <=-
Quoting Boraxman to Dflorey <=-
As for politicians keeping prices high for their own personal benefit. They are traitors to their nation, and should be dealt with as such.
How people think this is acceptable, and shouldn't result in severe punishment is beyond me. But hey, thats why we're all going to end up homeless, because we accept this from them.
I do get what you were explaining, but we're all going to end up as
dust in the wind. 100 years from now, no one will even remember we were alive. Sobering.
Once you're gone, even your kids will forget. We all have to make our
own way in this world. And it all ends the same way. Apologies for the dire words...
Cougar428 wrote to boraxman <=-
Quoting Boraxman to Dmxrob <=-
On 25 Apr 2025 at 10:43a, Dmxrob pondered and said...
We're in for some big trouble...
By the way, I did once work a job where I took complaints and queries about consumer products. The older people had the greatest sense of entitlement, by far. A friend who worked in a financial services
company, taking calls, had the same feedback.
I believe I may be older than you, and I might be in a different
country. But I could tell you quite a few stories of conversations I
have had with 'younger' people who were very 'entitled'. That doesn't
mean I haven't had conversations with 'older' people whe felt
similarly
'entitled'.
I don't believe it has anything to do with age. Just the attitude of
the individuals involved. Some people think they deserve something for
nothing, others don't.
Cougar428 wrote to DMXROB <=-
Quoting Dmxrob to Boraxman <=-
BY: boraxman (21:1/101)
On Saturday,April 19, 2025 at 10:53 AM, Boraxman (21:1/101) wrote:
My mum is a Boomer, and she said people can just "Scrimp and Save" like
she did. I asked her how long it took to pay off the mortgage. We grew
As someone who is "older" now (50s) statements like that piss me off.
It is amazing how people 20 years older than I am think the world
hasn't changed since 1955. They don't realize, or want to
acknowledge, how many government programs and aid they had in their
day, compared to what Gen X and beyond got - which was squat.
I shouldn't - but I will.
I am "older" (almost 70). It's not that I think the world hasn't
changed since 1955, I tend to think more along the lines that the
peole
have changed.
I don't think I have ever received any government assistance other
than
unemployment when I was out of work temorarily. I worked at a minimum
wage job and was married with a child, but did not get food stamps.
My attitude has always been that if I didn't need assistance, I
wouldn't take it. I was raised to believe that assistance was for
those
who were unable to make it on their own. I am a veteran but don't take
advantage of free offers for that group as I don't need them. Some
folks do, and that's alright.
Younger people (not sure about gen-whatever), seem to feel entitled to
any and all assistance as if it's normal to get something for nothing.
This attitude nowadays of "I got mine, and screw you" is prevelant
with so many people of that generation, and others. They feel the
younger generation should shoulder all the burden of society and taxes while they amass even more wealth.
My attitude is more in line with I worked my whole life to get mine
and
you should probably work hard to make a life for yourself. Every young
generation shoulders it's own burden. Not the burden of society. And I
imagine alot of us 'boomers' have amassed wealth in the millions
(not).
You make it sound as if all people are greedy nasty bastards. Believe
it or not - I wish the best for all the young generation. They are the
future and I for one am proud they are going to make it on their own.
I'm very much against that, and
believe that EVERYONE - I don't care your age - should pay in to
taxes, etc. I don't support "senior tax freeze" nonsense. Why should young families have to "scrimp" to pay for services you are using
while you have more than enough assets to pay for own?
I agree with you, everyone SHOULD pay taxes. Some people are
misinformed as to who actually does pay taxes. We ALL do.
You make it out as EVERYONE didn't have to scrimp to pay for services
that they used? You make me feel like an ogre since I worked for
50 years and saved my money so I could pay my bills after I have
finished my working life. I'm here to tell you, we're not all
millionaires.
Apologies - guess I'm the one ranting now, or so it sounds to me.
boraxman wrote to Cougar428 <=-
Younger people (not sure about gen-whatever), seem to feel entitled to
any and all assistance as if it's normal to get something for nothing.
This attitude nowadays of "I got mine, and screw you" is prevelant
with so many people of that generation, and others. They feel the
younger generation should shoulder all the burden of society and taxes while they amass even more wealth.
My attitude is more in line with I worked my whole life to get mine
and
you should probably work hard to make a life for yourself. Every young
generation shoulders it's own burden. Not the burden of society. And I
imagine alot of us 'boomers' have amassed wealth in the millions
(not).
I'm very much against that, and
believe that EVERYONE - I don't care your age - should pay in to
taxes, etc. I don't support "senior tax freeze" nonsense. Why should young families have to "scrimp" to pay for services you are using
while you have more than enough assets to pay for own?
I agree with you, everyone SHOULD pay taxes. Some people are
misinformed as to who actually does pay taxes. We ALL do.
You make it out as EVERYONE didn't have to scrimp to pay for services
that they used? You make me feel like an ogre since I worked for
50 years and saved my money so I could pay my bills after I have
finished my working life. I'm here to tell you, we're not all
millionaires.
I do see where you are coming from. To clarify, I'm a dad, have a
family, kids I own my home. I have a decent job (in theory). I sort
of "made it". Sort of.
See, I only *just* scraped into getting a home, and that was largely
in part due to coming into significant money that I inherited. I was priced out of where I grew. Looking at the prospects for me children, they appear utterly dire. The city has changed *dramatically* since I
was young. I just came back from there, and now I'm a minority!
Again! I wish I could say my children will be better off, but they
won't be. And you know what, I'm old enough now to compare my adult
life now, with my adult life when I was in my early 20s, and *despite* moving to a better position, becoming a leader, I'm worse off. And
all my peers are seeing the same.
Things are going down. Its palpable. My wife knows it. My friends,
her friends. Most parents see it. Parents I talkt to at work, my age cohort, see it. Ther eis this sense we are being pushed off a
cliff. That was not the case when my parents were young. Its
something bigger, deeper. When I have to turn away job interviews for managerial roles, because I can't afford to move, things are dire.
San Francisco was a magical place back then. I feel like I just caught
the tail-end of an accepting, open, creative era that changed shortly afterwards.
Quoting Poindexter Fortran to Cougar428 <=-
A carbueretor, points, distributor, and an engine compartment big
enough to get around in - must have been nice!
On my last gas-engine car, a Toyota Prius, some engineer decided to
run the spark plugs out the back end of the transversely-mounted
engine, meaning you need to take off the wiper arms and tray and some other parts to get to the plugs! At least the 12v battery was in the trunk...
Quoting Boraxman to Cougar428 <=-
We do matter, because the decisions we make affect the future. They
may not know our names, but they WILL be impacted by what we do. So
yeah, I think we do matter, whether others know it or not!
Quoting Boraxman to Cougar428 <=-
things are dire.
psychedelic or two. I don't even think these are things for your
College days only. In fact, I think they should be done when you are
MORE mature, more responsible, and around other people who are able to
I plan to live forever. So far, so good!
I plan to live forever. So far, so good!
I've heard rumors that on some cars they 'deleted' the oil and transmission dipsticks. May be just a rumor...
Cougar428 wrote to boraxman <=-
Quoting Boraxman to Cougar428 <=-
things are dire.
Relax my friend, things will never be what they were. Those times are
past. Believe it or not, we will go on. You will continue and your
children will make their own way.
I understand it's sometimes hard to persevere, but when things look
like they are at their worst - they can only get better. Take a break
and you'll feel better.
Have a great day!
Adept wrote to boraxman <=-
psychedelic or two. I don't even think these are things for your
College days only. In fact, I think they should be done when you are
MORE mature, more responsible, and around other people who are able to
I think, with drinking, we'd probably be better off if people were
exposed to it at a young age, but in a responsible form.
Whether that'd _actually_ makes things better I leave to people who
have done good science research on the topic.
Since, yeah, the idea is about whatever brings about the best outcome,
for whatever "best" means. And I don't want to stick to my opinions if there's another path that would lead to better results for the goals I actually want.
Adept wrote to boraxman <=-
I plan to live forever. So far, so good!
I feel as though you're not committed enough.
I plan to live forever, _or die trying_.
Gotta lean into it.
(And, yes, I'm sure I shamelessly stole that from _someone_.)
StormTrooper wrote to boraxman <=-
I plan to live forever. So far, so good!
Today is a new personal record for consecutive days alive? :P
I plan to live forever, _or die trying_.
Gotta lean into it.
(And, yes, I'm sure I shamelessly stole that from _someone_.)
Today is a new personal record for consecutive days alive? :P
Maybe for you, but I'm yet to beat my old record...
boraxman wrote to Adept <=-
In continental Europe, alcohol is everywhere. You can buy a beer at McDonalds, you can see Germans drinking a beer during lunch, or even in the morning.
Build a brand, make a name for yourself, get engaged by a company and
have them hire you - that does work.
I'm hiring for the first time in 8 years. I'm curious to see how the
vetting process works, because I'm only seeing massively overqualified
candidates who I wouldn't want to work with.
I feel like that would be a strange thing to be happening. I can't say I experienced any political bias in college, but maybe some colleges & universities are doing that for some reason..
I could never understand why people just automatically go to college
with no idea what they want to study. I knew years before I started
college. Maybe some people have money to burn, but I wanted to
make every day count. It took me 10 years to pay off my college
loans and I would feel foolish if I wasted all of that time and
money "experimenting."
You make it sound as if all people are greedy nasty bastards.
I understand it's sometimes hard to persevere, but when things look
like they are at their worst - they can only get better. Take a break
and you'll feel better.
I remember a once I was at an RPG party and the electric circuit responsible for the lights went kaput. Rather than cancel the party - everybody was enjoying the game - a friend from Engineering college and I disconnected one of the ceiling lamps from the circuit and ran a cable from an electrical socket into it. The RPG game was saved. The guy told me, as the lamp was
This reminds me of a regular subject for conversation that pops up every now and then with aquitances. The subject is the fact I will never get a public retirement pension because by the time I retire, the public retirement funds will be effectively bankrupt.
People usually takes it as a joke. Some guy, one day, told me something that serves as the perfect example of why society is wrecked: he said "Don't worry, what we know is we will all get our retirement pensions."
My experience is lots of people went there because they wanted a degree, but they didn't care which one, hence they were not sure what to study.
StormTrooper wrote to Arelor <=-
My experience is lots of people went there because they wanted a degree, but they didn't care which one, hence they were not sure what to study.
There was a time here, when positions were government funded we had a cadre of essentially professional students. They'd finish a course,
poke around and see what was available and then start another one, sometimes they might have 3-4 incomplete courses, and that was pretty
much all they did their entire working lives. None of it was ever put
to any use whatsoever.
Quoting Arelor to Cougar428 <=-
You make it sound as if all people are greedy nasty bastards.
People are greedy nasty bastards. The only thing you can count on is
they will run you over if it fits their interests. For all the talking about morality we get, people always bends their principles in such a
way that any actions to defend their interests are justified.
Hence my well known BBS motto "People sucks and deserves to die"
Quoting Arelor to Cougar428 <=-
I understand it's sometimes hard to persevere, but when things look
like they are at their worst - they can only get better. Take a break
and you'll feel better.
This reminds me of a regular subject for conversation that pops up
every now and then with aquitances. The subject is the fact I will
never get a public retirement pension because by the time I retire,
the public retirement funds will be effectively bankrupt.
People usually takes it as a joke. Some guy, one day, told me
something that serves as the perfect example of why society is
wrecked: he said "Don't worry, what we know is we will all get our retirement pensions."
Such claim is worrysome in itself because it shows people believes
stuff won't change even if all evidence points at the fact it will.
You can point at the tendencies and strains retirement funds get and
also at the fact absolutely nothing is being done or planed to save
them - in fact, what we know is in 30 years retirement pensions will
allow you to buy a fistful peanuts per month at best. And yet people refuses to openly acknowledge it because the popular thing to do is pretend things will fix themselves.
I think it is soooo much constructive to acknowledge in 30 years retirement funds are gona be deeply fucked up so you can withstand the storm when it hits. Being a prepared pesimist motherfucker beats
optimism.
My point is that when things look bad you have to assume they are bad instead of pretend they aren't.
I read a SF novel where the protagonist has been given an allocation
from his parents' estate, for as long as he is in university. He'd
successfully bounced from major to major for years until he'd finally
taken every course offered, and would have completed one of the degrees
by default...
I don't disagree with you, but sometimes you need to stop worrying
about something which is deeply bothering you in order to relax and
worry about the things that are dear to you.
On 23 Apr 2025 at 09:51a, Nightfox pondered and said...
Re: Re: New to this
By: boraxman to Nightfox on Wed Apr 23 2025 11:56 pm
Got to fix JuiceSSH on my Android. I was saying that University can be a liability, because people learn some strange and extrem political and social view from Uni, that get transferred into th workplace, where they are definately less than welcome.
I feel like that would be a strange thing to be happening. I can't s experienced any political bias in college, but maybe some colleges & universities are doing that for some reason..
Its pretty rife in the major universities in Melbourne and Sydney, particularly Melbourne. More-so student activism that rubs off on
others. They adopt a particular set of values, then seek to exert these in the workplace, or vice-versa, the workplace then modifies its culture and its workings, in order to accomodate their beliefs.
You end up with a situation where the company is geared towards a very specific, very localised worldview.
As for politicians keeping prices high for their own personal benefit. They are traitors to their nation, and should be dealt with as such.
How people think this is acceptable, and shouldn't result in severe punishment is beyond me. But hey, thats why we're all going to end up homeless, because we accept this from them.
Accession wrote to StormTrooper <=-
I've said it before - the two classes I regret not taking in high school were auto shop and typing.
I'm surprised that the kids in auto shop got to use the facilities
outside of class and on their own cars. Nowadays, that would be a liability nightmare.
BY: boraxman (21:1/101)
On Saturday,April 19, 2025 at 10:53 AM, Boraxman (21:1/101) wrote:
My mum is a Boomer, and she said people can just "Scrimp and Save" like she did. I asked her how long it took to pay off the mortgage. We greAs someone who is "older" now (50s) statements like that piss me off.
It is amazing how people 20 years older than I am think the world hasn't changed since 1955. They don't realize, or want to acknowledge, how
many government programs and aid they had in their day, compared to what Gen X and beyond got - which was squat.
This attitude nowadays of "I got mine, and screw you" is prevelant with
so many people of that generation, and others. They feel the younger generation should shoulder all the burden of society and taxes while
they amass even more wealth. I'm very much against that, and believe
that EVERYONE - I don't care your age - should pay in to taxes, etc. I don't support "senior tax freeze" nonsense. Why should young families have to "scrimp" to pay for services you are using while you have more than enough assets to pay for own?
Anyway, I've ranted enough. I just think this issue is even bigger tha most people think it is.
It is... and getting worse .
Meghan Fitzgerald wrote to boraxman <=-
On 15 Apr 2025 at 06:52p, Meghan Fitzgerald pondered and said...
I am new to this FSX. How is everyone?
Meg
Welcome. Obviously not your first time on BBS?
No not my first time. I have been using this one here for many years and now that I am getting close to retirement with more free time I wanted to get back into this. I used FidoNet a LONG time ago and am starting to get back into it. I don't like the way social media today looks and feels. This is what I remember most. Have a great day and thanks for writing back to me. Meg
I don't really like how Social Media works. Toxic, and the interface
is pretty poor too. Unfortunately, that is where the people are, but
its like having to walk into a minefield to talk to people, because everyone else is there. You stand there and say "We shouldn't stand
in a minefield", but everyone stays, because thats where the people
are.
Anyway, I'm here because I like to practice what I preach, and if more people come to better platforms, the better for us.
I wish there were a way to updoot this message.
People are greedy nasty bastards. The only thing you can count on is
they will run you over if it fits their interests. For all the talking about morality we get, people always bends their principles in such a
way that any actions to defend their interests are justified.
Hence my well known BBS motto "People sucks and deserves to die"
Re: Re: New to this
By: Gryphon to boraxman on Tue May 06 2025 06:17 am
I wish there were a way to updoot this message.
What is "updoot"?
The platform won't help. If you remember, fidonet is called FIGHT-O-NET, and for good reason. The problem isn't you have to walk through a minefield to talk to people. The people ARE the minefield. Where ever you get people with opinions together (like here) they will bring the mines with them.
Gryphon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
On 24 Apr 2025 at 08:19p, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...
Accession wrote to StormTrooper <=-
I've said it before - the two classes I regret not taking in high school were auto shop and typing.
I'm surprised that the kids in auto shop got to use the facilities
outside of class and on their own cars. Nowadays, that would be a liability nightmare.
When I was in HS, shop class was about as dated as computer
programming. I mean, I could learn to fix brakes or clean a carburetor
in shop class, but what good is that skill now? I learned COBOL and FORTRAN in HS. YOU of all people know how dated that skill is now.
Arelor wrote to Gryphon <=-
Well, I think the platform matters because some platforms are fully operated by censors.
See, if I write a Dovenet review about an RPG book and critizise it for pushing political points that are shoehorned into it, some people might
be angry and argue my review is trash. **And that is fine**. Talking
only to people you agree with is boring after a while and you don't get
to learn much.
However, you post the same review on RPGnet and you get banned, they create a thread about why you got banned and how cool it is you got banned. The place is dying for a reason.
Communication systems without global banning authorities are a godsend. They make a total difference. They will never achieve mass appeal again because regular people can't take the heat and will rather have the Ban Police take their freedom in exchange for saving them from imaginary threats, just like in real life. This does not mean we can't use them ourselves.
Gryphon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
When I was in HS, shop class was about as dated as computer
programming. I mean, I could learn to fix brakes or clean a carburetor
in shop class, but what good is that skill now? I learned COBOL and FORTRAN in HS. YOU of all people know how dated that skill is now.
However, you post the same review on RPGnet and you get banned, they create a thread about why you got banned and how cool it is you got banned. The place is dying for a reason.
Is that a forum or reddit or what? I don't 'hang out' on either, but I
do enjoy RPG's! :-) Having a Christian worldview means my views are not really welcome in the modern RPG space... No, I don't go attacking, but
as you inferred, disagreement means you are evil.
Meghan Fitzgerald wrote to All <=-
I am new to this FSX. How is everyone?
RPGnet is a forum about, you guess it, tabletop Roleplaying Games :-P
Arelor wrote to Jimmy Anderson <=-
RPGnet is a forum about, you guess it, tabletop Roleplaying Games :-P
There are lots of traditional style games still made if you don't like modern trends. I don't know what your tolerance towards dark subjects
is (ie. if you are fine with a game having demons and the like) but you can fish for lots of cool stuff in the OSR movement or the NSR (Old
School Renaissance and New School Renaissance, respectively).
If you want something more traditional there is the Pendragon game, designed to roleplay the Arthuric Legend. This game is usualy bought
with the Great Pendragon Campaign in order to play the whole story of
King Arthur from start to finish.