With the recent string of cataclysmic disasters hitting the USA lately
and the complete collapse of the Verizon network due to a cyber attack,
I have been thinking about how fragile the Internet is and how all BBS
activity could grind to a halt with little warning.

So I have been seriously thinking about starting a packet BBS. Packet BBS
uses shortwave but of course you still need electricity. A small
generator would be enough to run it from a laptop.

Packet BBS could be a great way to keep communities together in
times of disaster. My question is, do any of you have experience
with packet radio? If so, could you give me a few pointers? I
hardly know where to start, Thanks.

... That's not a bug, it's an undocumented feature

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: From the depths of Bunker 3 (21:1/130)

Alonzo wrote to All <=-

With the recent string of cataclysmic disasters hitting the USA lately
and the complete collapse of the Verizon network due to a cyber attack,
I have been thinking about how fragile the Internet is and how all BBS activity could grind to a halt with little warning.

That's the natural progression of things.

By putting everything into "one basket", you reduce maintenance costs. But that also creates a single point of failure. So when the failures occur, you split everything back out again - to a certain point.

Of course, that works until some manager says "we should put everything into one basket to save money (i.e. so I can get a bonus)".

Verizon is learning from their mistake and will correct it over time.

Packet BBS could be a great way to keep communities together in
times of disaster. My question is, do any of you have experience
with packet radio? If so, could you give me a few pointers? I
hardly know where to start, Thanks.

The best I can do is point to KA9Q. I used this software back in the pre-internet days over dial up. It was an MS-DOS software package that was originally intended to be used over packet radio for just what you want to do.

I would assume that it's descendants are out there and much easier to set up and use than the 1987 version.


... ...I multi-task, I read in the bathroom.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A48 (Windows/32)
* Origin: bbs.CabanaBar.net:11123 (21:1/246)

On 11 Oct 2024, Dr. What said the following...

That's the natural progression of things.
By putting everything into "one basket", you reduce maintenance costs. But that also creates a single point of failure. So when the failures occur, you split everything back out again - to a certain point.

Of course, that works until some manager says "we should put everything into one basket to save money (i.e. so I can get a bonus)".

Verizon is learning from their mistake and will correct it over time.

Packet BBS could be a great way to keep communities together in
times of disaster. My question is, do any of you have experience
with packet radio? If so, could you give me a few pointers? I
hardly know where to start, Thanks.

The best I can do is point to KA9Q. I used this software back in the pre-internet days over dial up. It was an MS-DOS software package that was originally intended to be used over packet radio for just what you want to do.

I would assume that it's descendants are out there and much easier to
set up and use than the 1987 version.

... ...I multi-task, I read in the bathroom.

There are a ton of youtube videos out there about the subject. When I have the ability I do want to put one up myself. Raspberry PI takes very little energy.

|23|04Dr|16|12Claw
|16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |20|15Radio|10@|14HTTP://Noverdu.com:88
|16|10 Standard ports for SSH/Telnet |04 WEB|14@|12HTTP://noverdu.com:808 |20|15Global Chat, Global Messaging and Games! |16|10Ditch the Unsocial Media

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Noverdu BBS (21:1/210)

There are a ton of youtube videos out there about the subject. When I have the
ability I do want to put one up myself. Raspberry PI takes very little energy.

Can you run a packet BBS in the US without a HAM license? I was thinking someone here in the past was running one and the answer was "no" when this question was asked, but I may be getting mixed up again. ;)


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Can you run a packet BBS in the US without a HAM license? I was thinking someone here in the past was running one and the answer was "no" when
this question was asked, but I may be getting mixed up again. ;)

You would need a ham license however I've been seeing these "LoRa" setups that use license-free frequencies. It's something I've been wanting to get into but haven't had the time.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CrNet BBS (Telnet:bbs.crnet.net:1023)- (21:1/187)

On 10 Oct 2024 at 08:24p, Alonzo pondered and said...

With the recent string of cataclysmic disasters hitting the USA lately
and the complete collapse of the Verizon network due to a cyber attack,
I have been thinking about how fragile the Internet is and how all BBS activity could grind to a halt with little warning.

I don't think any of that is evidence that the _Internet_
is "fragile". If anything, that the Internet has continued
to work unimpeded in the areas not affected by storms and
such shows just how resilient it is.

I think what you mean is that commercial providers have gaps
in their setups that make them susceptible to failures of
various kinds, and that's fair, but that says more about
those providers than it does about the Internet.

So I have been seriously thinking about starting a packet BBS. Packet BBS uses shortwave but of course you still need electricity. A small
generator would be enough to run it from a laptop.

Let's assume by "packet BBS" you mean using AX.25 over amateur
radio; you can run AX.25 over a number of frequencies, including
the shortwave (HF) frequencies, but also VHF and UHF. One can
also use it over e.g. CB or LoRa or the unlicensed IMS bands.
I haven't checked the regulations, but I'd be surprised if it was
prohibited on GMRS or FRS.

One can also tunnel IP over AX.25, meaning that any of those
radio technologies could be used to extend one's access to the
Internet over an RF channel, in case a commercial provider
failed.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 11 Oct 2024 at 09:30a, Dumas Walker pondered and said...

Can you run a packet BBS in the US without a HAM license? I was thinking someone here in the past was running one and the answer was "no" when
this question was asked, but I may be getting mixed up again. ;)

You need a ham license to run one on the ham frequencies, but I
don't see any reason one couldn't run packet on CB or another
unlicensed band.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

The best I can do is point to KA9Q. I used this software back in the pre-internet days over dial up. It was an MS-DOS software package that was originally intended to be used over packet radio for just what you want to do.

Thanks, I will look into it.

... There will be a rain dance Friday night, weather permitting!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: From the depths of Bunker 3 (21:1/130)

Can you run a packet BBS in the US without a HAM license? I was thinking someone here in the past was running one and the answer was "no" when

No, you need to get a license, but they are not difficult to get.
You have to take a test but it's not that difficult.

... Documentation: The worst part of programming.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: From the depths of Bunker 3 (21:1/130)

I don't think any of that is evidence that the _Internet_
is "fragile". If anything, that the Internet has continued
to work unimpeded in the areas not affected by storms and
such shows just how resilient it is.

Since the Internet is completely dependent on phone carriers,
I would say it is fragile. No phone line = no Internet.

... Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: From the depths of Bunker 3 (21:1/130)

I don't think any of that is evidence that the _Internet_
is "fragile". If anything, that the Internet has continued
to work unimpeded in the areas not affected by storms and
such shows just how resilient it is.

Since the Internet is completely dependent on phone carriers,
I would say it is fragile. No phone line = no Internet.

No it isn't. We don't have a phone line, we have a fibre cable to our house installed by the government.. in order to use the phone we have to use VoIP. The phone carrier is dependent on the internet.

Not to mention things like star link, or even as tenser wrote you could run IP over packet radio if you want to.

Parts of the internet may be fragile, but the very design of the internet is very resilient if those fragile parts disappear, they are just routed around.

Andrew


--- Noddy git-4716e54
* Origin: Space Junk! BBS :: SpaceJunkBBS.com:2323 (21:4/158)

On 12 Oct 2024, tenser said the following...

You need a ham license to run one on the ham frequencies, but I
don't see any reason one couldn't run packet on CB or another
unlicensed band.

I don't know for certain, but I thought I read somewhere that digital operation on CB was prohibited in the US (though legal in most of the EU).

There was also some weird thing I vaguely remember about 11m not exactly being unlicensed. The license to operate rests with the equipment manufacturer, not with the operator, or something similarly wonky.

(Not agreeing with it, just conveying what I thought I read somewhere. Could be wildly mistaken -- like how we were told it was illegal to drive a car with the dome light on.)

RS

... I can't decide which pants to wear... smarty or fancy?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/32)
* Origin: The Arena BBS · netasylum.com:2323 (21:4/111)

You would need a ham license however I've been seeing these "LoRa" setups that >use license-free frequencies. It's something I've been wanting to get into but
haven't had the time.

I used to see some YT videos where people were talking about LoRa and I
assumed it was a wi-fi alternative. More recently, I saw a video by
someone who usually reports on shortwave radio so I figured I must be
mistaken.

I need to go back and watch a few of them.


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--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)

I used to see some YT videos where people were talking about LoRa and I assumed it was a wi-fi alternative. More recently, I saw a video by someone who usually reports on shortwave radio so I figured I must be mistaken.

Yeah it's not WiFi, but it is 900mhz or in that area and then jumps node to node to extend the network. Kind of reminds me of the old FidoNet way of doing things.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: CrNet BBS (Telnet:bbs.crnet.net:1023)- (21:1/187)

Re: Re: Packet BBS
By: Reverend Shaft to tenser on Sat Oct 12 2024 01:47:33

I don't know for certain, but I thought I read somewhere that digital operation on CB was prohibited in the US (though legal in most of the EU).

Last I checked, it was prohibited in Canada as well.

I did a bit of packet on CB back when I was studying for my ham license, between a couple of handhelds in my basement. I figured there was basically no chance of anyone else receiving me, and even then little chance anyone would mind, and even then little chance of enforcement. CB is very underutilized here.

echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
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On 11 Oct 2024 at 08:35p, Alonzo pondered and said...

Since the Internet is completely dependent on phone carriers,
I would say it is fragile. No phone line = no Internet.

That is absolutely untrue.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Since the Internet is completely dependent on phone carriers,
I would say it is fragile. No phone line = no Internet.

That is absolutely untrue.

Maybe it is true where they live? It hasn't been true here for years.

Now, no cable connection to feed your wifi router might be true here.


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On 13 Oct 2024 at 09:53a, Dumas Walker pondered and said...

Since the Internet is completely dependent on phone carriers,
I would say it is fragile. No phone line = no Internet.

That is absolutely untrue.

Maybe it is true where they live? It hasn't been true here for years.

Now, no cable connection to feed your wifi router might be true here.

I think it depends entirely on how much effort you want
to expend on it. But the critical point is that, "The
Internet" != "Someones ISP". If folks want to be serious
about redundancy, they _can_ put together a DIY RF path;
in this regard, it's no different than connected mode
AX.25.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

5--On 11 Oct 2024, Dumas Walker said the following..

Can you run a packet BBS in the US without a HAM license? I was thinking

5 DW> someone here in the past was running one and the answer was "no" when

this question was asked, but I may be getting mixed up again. ;)

S
Well if you get it running on CB or GMRS or FRS then yes. Don't know much about how you would do that but you could. If you want HAM frequencies then you need a license. It's pretty easy to get the tech license. hamstudy.org
if you want more get Gordon's book ISBN 978-1-62595-190-8

|23|04Dr|16|12Claw
|16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |20|15Radio|10@|14HTTP://Noverdu.com:88
|16|10 Standard ports for SSH/Telnet |04 WEB|14@|12HTTP://noverdu.com:808 |20|15Global Chat, Global Messaging and Games! |16|10Ditch the Unsocial Media

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Noverdu BBS (21:1/210)

Since the Internet is completely dependent on phone carriers,
I would say it is fragile. No phone line = no Internet.

Maybe in some parts of the world it's regulated that internet can only be provided by the incumbent phone carriers, and maybe they choose to do it over phone lines.

Where I am (Australia), I haven't used a phone line for Internet (ADSL2) for at least a decade. Haven't /had/ a phone line for at least a decade. I could also use geosync satellite, or LEO satellite for non-phone-carrier solutions if I wanted to.

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* Origin: TassieBob BBS, Hobart, Tasmania (21:3/169)